How does the Cummins emission fine affect us as owners?

[cerberusiam]

How can Cummins be blamed? If I'm not mistaken the ECM is not a Cummins ECM, isn't it from Chrysler which would mean all the software belongs to Chrysler? Seems to me the Washington and California Mafia is targeting the engine manufacturer to put them out of business, similar to gun lawsuits targeting gun manufacturers.

Engine control software, including emissions, is all Cummins programming. Dodge just includes the files Cummins gives them in the update packages.

lol, nothing has indicated that it’s about fuel or power.
The initial reports are that it’s a NOx issue, and that the trucks may use more DEF. That’s not a big deal at all, be happy if they don’t up your EGR usage.

If we are LUCKY they don't mess with fueling and increase it richen it up to avoid NOX issues.

What is sad that it is cheaper for Cummins to pay that fine and issue a program fix than fight government overreach on the basis of some "undisclosed" defeat mechanism. That really means the EPA and CARB do NOT know what it is or what is wrong, just their "opinion" there is something wrong and it is either fix it or we will drag you thru court for the next 10 years. No manufacturer can win against the EPA as they will just engineer a decision that there is no appeal for and STILL fine them. Welcome to the New Green Deal where someone ELSE is going to pay for it.

 

[AH64ID]

If we are LUCKY they don't mess with fueling and increase it richen it up to avoid NOX issues.

It’s just too easy to increase DEF dosage. We can look at how these trucks have progressed over the years to know that the engineers have realized how bad EGR is, how bad the exhaust brake for warmup is, and what minimal changes in timing do for exhaust temp, NOx, and economy.

It’s definitely a fine line of longevity, emissions, maintenance, and fuel economy. Emissions throws the biggest wrench in the mix.

We need to get to a point where it’s after treatment only.

What is sad that it is cheaper for Cummins to pay that fine and issue a program fix than fight government overreach on the basis of some "undisclosed" defeat mechanism. That really means the EPA and CARB do NOT know what it is or what is wrong, just their "opinion" there is something wrong and it is either fix it or we will drag you thru court for the next 10 years. No manufacturer can win against the EPA as they will just engineer a decision that there is no appeal for and STILL fine them. Welcome to the New Green Deal where someone ELSE is going to pay for it.

Sucks, if they won’t fight back on this BS who will?

 

[06 Dodge]

It’s just too easy to increase DEF dosage. We can look at how these trucks have progressed over the years to know that the engineers have realized how bad EGR is, how bad the exhaust brake for warmup is, and what minimal changes in timing do for exhaust temp, NOx, and economy.

It’s definitely a fine line of longevity, emissions, maintenance, and fuel economy. Emissions throws the biggest wrench in the mix.

We need to get to a point where it’s after treatment only.



Sucks, if they won’t fight back on this BS who will?

From what I have read buy someone who at one time had ties to Cummins a while ago those high up CEO types who run Cummins now days are bunch of sellout woke tree hugging EPA @SS kissing losers

 

[Diesel85]

From what I have read buy someone who at one time had ties to Cummins a while ago those high up CEO types who run Cummins now days are bunch of sellout woke tree hugging EPA @SS kissing losers

It's not just Cummins -- it's all of them. It's all about cash flow.

Personally, I would like to start seeing everyone, including these automakers stop accepting bribes, payments or incentives from the government.

It would certainly change the landscape quite a bit.

It really hurt my feelings what happened to the EcoDiesel with all that engineering that went into it. Held onto an 80% redesigned engine for only 3 years? Then hold them up on the dealers lots for over a year. Thats a lot of money to waste on R&D. It was a decent little diesel engine after that. At least keep it for another 2-3 years.

I'm glad I'm the age I am, because all I need is one more diesel truck and then I want to be buried in it. After that, all you youngins can battle it as I'll likely be pushing up the daisies.

 

[Ozymandias]

Im not that sure if it comes to this, the Grapevine tells me different. But there is nothing confirmed yet. Also it seems to be two different issues for the pre 2019 and the CGI engine.

 

[cerberusiam]

It’s just too easy to increase DEF dosage. We can look at how these trucks have progressed over the years to know that the engineers have realized how bad EGR is, how bad the exhaust brake for warmup is, and what minimal changes in timing do for exhaust temp, NOx, and economy.
Sucks, if they won’t fight back on this BS who will?

It is easier to run more DEF, add EGR than redo fueling curves but like anything it is a balance of MTBF. DEF with the current system on these trucks is problematic, they can and will fail for odd reasons trashing the whole system. One just hopes it happens under warranty or the truck is traded before it implodes.

It is all about $$ fighting the government agencies rather just caving into unreasonable demands. It isn't right in any way shape or form; it isn't right management is all about $$ and stock prices, it is just the way businesses are run now. At the end of the day WE let them get away with it, corporations and the government both. We as consumers are going to pay for it, the alternative is some very hard choices and outcomes.

 

[Diesel85]

It is easier to run more DEF, add EGR than redo fueling curves but like anything it is a balance of MTBF. DEF with the current system on these trucks is problematic, they can and will fail for odd reasons trashing the whole system. One just hopes it happens under warranty or the truck is traded before it implodes.

It is all about $$ fighting the government agencies rather just caving into unreasonable demands. It isn't right in any way shape or form; it isn't right management is all about $$ and stock prices, it is just the way businesses are run now. At the end of the day WE let them get away with it, corporations and the government both. We as consumers are going to pay for it, the alternative is some very hard choices and outcomes.

Fuel, DEF, more EGR, whichever gets changed, it will wind up costing us more. Whether it be DEF or diesel fuel, or getting an early expensive repair bill.

This really screws the ones that are commercial that need to keep emissions systems in tact. Like I drive a 2020 3500 Cummins for work and it's not like the owner of the business can just delete it. It's a registered commercial truck with DOT numbers, been through check points, etc.

For some of the private owners that don't have to worry about emissions in their state, they delete it and never go back to a dealer again, which then this doesn't even apply to those folks.

Me personally wouldn't delete a truck, just because I don't want to end up in a messy ordeal or take chances.

I was watching a video this morning about RAM Cummins truck prices. Basic no-frills Tradesman 2500 Cummins 4x2 reg cab long bed was $64k. Absolutely nuts.

 

[Wiredawg]

Just looked up my 2017 5500 C&C and no recall listed. I guess its the higher HP/TQ engines involved.

 

[Diesel85]

Just looked up my 2017 5500 C&C and no recall listed. I guess its the higher HP/TQ engines involved.

I think the 4500/5500 C&C fall under a different emissions class. Meaning, I think it's allowed to pollute more.

I was looking at maybe getting a 5500 C&C with an aluminum flatbed instead of a 3500 for my next truck. They seem a bit better built.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Guvment should be on the hook for maintaining these systems especially if Guvment requires this update after warranty is gone.

 

[Wiredawg]

I think the 4500/5500 C&C fall under a different emissions class. Meaning, I think it's allowed to pollute more.

I was looking at maybe getting a 5500 C&C with an aluminum flatbed instead of a 3500 for my next truck. They seem a bit better built.

I don't think 4500/5500s pollute more, I believe the opposite... they pollute less. Interesting there is a Certified Clean Idle sticker on them.

 

[Diesel85]

I don't think 4500/5500s pollute more, I believe the opposite... they pollute less. Interesting there is a Certified Clean Idle sticker on them.

Oh, okay. I'm not sure because they have even higher weight ratings if they are more exempt. Shows you what I knew.

IIRC, the sticker means that it might be programmed to turn off the engine after 5 minutes being in park or something like that. Not quite sure. Kind of lazy to go look it up.

 

[Wiredawg]

Oh, okay. I'm not sure because they have even higher weight ratings if they are more exempt. Shows you what I knew.

IIRC, the sticker means that it might be programmed to turn off the engine after 5 minutes being in park or something like that. Not quite sure. Kind of lazy to go look it up.

No, but my 2017 is 325HP/750TQ. Happily it idles like every one else's, just not as much power.

Interesting, the highest HP/TQ Cummins produces the 6.7L commercial engine is 360/800 and those engines aren't affected by the penalty either for what we know as of now.

Washed that beast yesterday, took two hours. Local car wash wants $190 to hand wash and dry it. I'm still stubborn enough to do it myself.

Anyhoo, we'll keep tracking. Hopefully, the fix doesn't have a huge power derate associated with it.

 

[Diesel85]

No, but my 2017 is 325HP/750TQ. Happily it idles like every one else's, just not as much power.

Interesting, the highest HP/TQ Cummins produces the 6.7L commercial engine is 360/800 and those engines aren't affected by the penalty either for what we know as of now.

Washed that beast yesterday, took two hours. Local car wash wants $190 to hand wash and dry it. I'm still stubborn enough to do it myself.

Anyhoo, we'll keep tracking. Hopefully, the fix doesn't have a huge power derate associated with it.

Wowzers, $190 to hand wash and dry it!? Is it like gold water or something? Around here in Upstate NY, a hand wash and dry is about $40 for trucks. I still prefer to do it myself at the manual wash bays for $5-10 in the machine. I like the fact they went to accepting actual paper money from quarters... I hated quarters!

It's all interesting, but not in a good way. I don't like it when any diesel engine is not in a good limelight.

 

[Wiredawg]

Wowzers, $190 to hand wash and dry it!? Is it like gold water or something? Around here in Upstate NY, a hand wash and dry is about $40 for trucks. I still prefer to do it myself at the manual wash bays for $5-10 in the machine. I like the fact they went to accepting actual paper money from quarters... I hated quarters!

It's all interesting, but not in a good way. I don't like it when any diesel engine is not in a good limelight.

No, just a lot of detail. They don't want to treat it like a p/u.

 

[Diesel85]

No, just a lot of detail. They don't want to treat it like a p/u. View attachment 139465 View attachment 139466

Nice truck.

You got it dressed right. Good taste.

 

[Wiredawg]

Nice truck.

You got it dressed right. Good taste.

Thank you! That's why I kept it after we bought a MH and got rid of the 5th wheel.

 

[Topzide]

@Wiredawg, Not just the high HP/torq setups. My lonely Tradesman has the 67A recall attached to it! It's gonna get even more interesting the closer we get to actually finding out what the "fix" is!
Keep that truck looking good there! Just don't wax the paint off of it! Glad to see your still getting out and doing what you can. Share that same motivation to keep moving and doing with what I can for as long as I can till back makes it too difficult too!

 

[SSchang]

I think the only way we will find out what the "Fix" is by listening to folks who have it done and how it performs afterword. The "Fix" will be a new software calibration, and Cummins or Ram won't tell us what the calibration will change or what side effects it will have.

 

[Diesel85]

I think the only way we will find out what the "Fix" is by listening to folks who have it done and how it performs afterword. The "Fix" will be a new software calibration, and Cummins or Ram won't tell us what the calibration will change or what side effects it will have.

Exactly. Unfortunately folks are going to be guinea pigs any way you slice it.

Trust me, I feel the same way about the newly revised CP4 HPFP for my EcoD. I don't want to get that recall done on my truck until at least for a year, or to be quite frank, maybe two years now that I'm thinking about it. It's just that my truck is my money maker, and I'm not a guinea pig.

Feels like we keep getting treated as test subjects sometimes.