How does the Cummins emission fine affect us as owners?

[Turbo Terry]

Good news thanks John

 

[06 Dodge]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/engine...-billion-emissions-cheating-scandal-1.6720048

As I see it if the EPA or CARB had/has proof they need to put up or shut up and my guess they don't put up or show proof...

 

[Diesel85]

Here's something interesting: https://www.motortrend.com/news/cummins-ram-hd-diesel-emissions-scandal-penalty/

For the rest of the country, Cummins will offset the NOx produced by working with railroad locomotive owners on a pair of emissions reduction projects. First, Cummins will finance and ensure the replacement of 27 old, high-emitting, diesel locomotives. And second, Cummins will fund and complete 50 projects aimed at reducing idling time for diesel-powered switching locomotives.

 

[06 Dodge]

Here's something interesting: https://www.motortrend.com/news/cummins-ram-hd-diesel-emissions-scandal-penalty/

For the rest of the country, Cummins will offset the NOx produced by working with railroad locomotive owners on a pair of emissions reduction projects. First, Cummins will finance and ensure the replacement of 27 old, high-emitting, diesel locomotives. And second, Cummins will fund and complete 50 projects aimed at reducing idling time for diesel-powered switching locomotives.

What really makes me PO'ed is the fact that so many online place use Click Bait words like Emission Cheating or Emission cheating scandal and then write about how that even though no devices aka code was found they do all they can try to link this to what VW did who btw did use code to cheat or try to say its similar too, it never fails me that so many so called experts just buy into what they are told hook line and sinker, they act like a parrot then go on too add extra inflammatory words used by those tree huggers in CA who hate diesels/ICE/oil an would love for all of us to go back to horse & buggy days...

 

[Diesel85]

What really makes me PO'ed is the fact that so many online place use Click Bait words like Emission Cheating or Emission cheating scandal and then write about how that even though no devices aka code was found they do all they can try to link this to what VW did who btw did use code to cheat or try to say its similar too, it never fails me that so many so called experts just buy into what they are told hook line and sinker, they act like a parrot then go on too add extra inflammatory words used by those tree huggers in CA who hate diesels/ICE/oil an would love for all of us to go back to horse & buggy days...

What irritates me the most is the fact that diesel engines were actually designed around a bio fuels like vegetable seed oil and peanut oil. Both of which are carbon neutral and renewable fuel sources. Where as the first gasoline engine was run on coal gas, which is a petroleum byproduct, which is neither carbon neutral nor renewable.

With that being said... why on God's green earth are manufacturers still designing new gasoline engines if they want to go "green"?? Look at the new inline six Hurricane engine they are pushing out... That gas engine will pollute far more than the EcoD or a Cummins! Stellantis should've been engineering a new diesel engine that could do at least biodiesel 50 or higher compliant diesel fuel and dropped all gasoline options.

The tree huggers should be embracing the technology we have for our diesel engines and pushing for renewable/neutral fuel sources and rid the gasoline engine dependence for vehicles. Along with dropping the notion for EVs and hybrids. That would alleviate mining for dangerous elements, and more rare earth elements such as copper and other expensive elements. More so that can't be recycled and that pollute way more over the long run.

That's because of well... [fill in the blanks]... (I don't want to say any more and risk getting this thread locked and me being the blame.)

I'm still very upset that they dropped a diesel option out of the half ton segment (Ford/Stellantis), more so since GM is committed to keeping a diesel half ton around for a while. I'm also upset that these manufacturers haven't stepped up to the plate to make biodiesel 100 compliant engines yet.

Still, I am a firm believer that the diesel engine is the only way that us as humans can make this world a greener pasture sensibly. Or in other words, something that actually makes sense without impacts on people's day-to-day living and traveling architecture.

 

[bcbender]

tree huggers in CA who hate diesels/ICE/oil an would love for all of us to go back to horse & buggy days...

HAHA.. Then they would p!ss and moan about the manure and the farts causing global warming.... so glad I left CA 2 decades ago, it was bad then..

 

[bcbender]

Still, I am a firm believer that the diesel engine is the only way that us as humans can make this world a greener pasture sensibly

I would agree with this since the concept of a battery Hybrid vehicle can be similar to a locomotive in that the propulsion is completely electric (not like the hybrids today) and then the engine/generator could be diesel powered thus allowing it to run at the ideal operation point 100% of the time making electricity for charging / driving.. Diesel is always more efficient from a btu in to work out.... but alas.. this direction of ALL EVs is political not engineering based.

 

[MarkEagleUSA]

Interesting video of post-recall performance,

 

[Diesel85]

Interesting video of post-recall performance,

It's interesting reading the comments in the video.

No one seems to really know.

Personally, I have a feeling that there will be another software update recall this summer or early fall. Could be wrong though.

All speculation.

 

[bboxall]

View attachment 139430 View attachment 139431

I got the same notice on my 2016. I'm not having any issues with my 2016 the way it is right now so I'm not going to mess with it.
As I understand the complaint they are saying the trucks make to much nitrous oxide in the exhaust plume. Nitrous oxides in the exhaust are caused by too much left over oxygen in the combustion process. To fix this there will probably have to increase the DEF flowrate, possibly change the timing and potentially a mixture enrichment which will lower fuel mileage. They can also change the shape of the fuel injection squirt, more fuel in the cleanup shot.
No thanks! I'll leave my truck just like it is, thank you very much.

 

[Diesel85]

I got the same notice on my 2016. I'm not having any issues with my 2016 the way it is right now so I'm not going to mess with it.
As I understand the complaint they are saying the trucks make to much nitrous oxide in the exhaust plume. Nitrous oxides in the exhaust are caused by too much left over oxygen in the combustion process. To fix this there will probably have to be a timing change and potentially a mixture enrichment which will lower fuel mileage. They can also change the shape of the fuel injection squirt, more fuel in the cleanup shot.
No thanks! I'll leave my truck just like it is, thank you very much.

From what some folks have commented on (without expert calculations) is more DEF usage. It could also be fuel spray and timing, who knows...

The cat will come out of the bag once some real experts start getting into the software.

 

[promisedland]

TFL Truck has a 2020so 2500 they are testing 'before"
After isn't done yet.

 

[AH64ID]

TFL Truck has a 2020so 2500 they are testing 'before"
After isn't done yet.

There won't be an after, 2020's had the fix from the factory so they won't be recalled.

 

[ProLean]

Got the notice but won't have the recall done if I can help it. I do have a basic question about all of this....and maybe I am missing something (probably) but here goes...They call it a "Cheat Device" yet when was this "cheating" supposedly taking place? My truck is basically stock and here in Maricopa County AZ, I have to have my truck tested every year. My results have always been at the very bottom of the allowable limits of what is required by the county. They also do not hook the truck up to anything on the OBDII port so the truck wouldn't know to cheat or turn anything off or on during a test. Is the EPA saying that Cummins "cheated" to get the engine certified originally and therefore all the engines in those years are offenders or are they saying that even though my truck is passing here in AZ, other trucks are cheating to pass where the requirements are more strict? I'm having trouble following their logic. Am I alone in all this?

 

[Diesel85]

Got the notice but won't have the recall done if I can help it. I do have a basic question about all of this....and maybe I am missing something (probably) but here goes...They call it a "Cheat Device" yet when was this "cheating" supposedly taking place? My truck is basically stock and here in Maricopa County AZ, I have to have my truck tested every year. My results have always been at the very bottom of the allowable limits of what is required by the county. They also do not hook the truck up to anything on the OBDII port so the truck wouldn't know to cheat or turn anything off or on during a test. Is the EPA saying that Cummins "cheated" to get the engine certified originally and therefore all the engines in those years are offenders or are they saying that even though my truck is passing here in AZ, other trucks are cheating to pass where the requirements are more strict? I'm having trouble following their logic. Am I alone in all this?

Other than software reprogramming, no one has let the cat out of the bag.

I'd like to see someone make a copy of their ECU or get a hold of a non-updated ECU, and then get an ECU that was updated and then hook them up to a computer and start comparing the programming.

I'm still sitting on the edge of my seat with my EcoD to find out what they changed with the brand new (redesigned) CP4 that was just released a few weeks ago. No one has done a review/tear down to compare the old CP4 and the new CP4. Another example of no one has let the cat out of the bag. I'm still waiting to find out more, before I do my recall. And you better believe that the CP4 will end up eventually in the Cummins again. All in the name of emissions.

Personally, I feel for everyone being glossed over by this. Even the EcoD owners with the new HPFP. People pay big bucks for these trucks, and to be not told what got changed isn't morally right.

If anything, I'd like to see someone sue the EPA and CARB for misleading or incomplete information.

 

[Tuesdak]

My truck is basically stock and here in Maricopa County AZ

The SNAP Test, other than blowing an engine if the governor fails during the test, only checks for opacity. Aka a black cloud. It doesn't check for anything else like the sniffer on gas engines do.

EPA tests that certify an engine test more things like NOx.

Point of fact the emissions tests here allowing 40% opacity will not catch a cracked DPF. The standard is really for old forgotten dirty IDI diesels that left the factory without any emissions equipment on the exhaust.

 

[Ozymandias]

There is a difference between a SMOG test and the emissions testing a manufacturer has to accomplish.

 

[promisedland]

There won't be an after, 2020's had the fix from the factory so they won't be recalled.

I was wrong, they have a 2022

 

[AH64ID]

I was wrong, they have a 2022

Same situation thou, no recall for the 2022's.

 

[ProLean]

That's exactly my point in questioning whether the truck knows its being tested and switches to another "Cheater Software" to pass SMOG/Emissions/NOX and then switches back to it's "regularly scheduled programming" after the test. That is what they are saying to me anyway.