Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) How easy is it to make power with the 12 valve

[GIT-R-DONE]

I am considering purchasing a 12 valve truck, 97-98 model. How easy is it to make power with these trucks over the 24 valve motors. Is i t more expensive to do or is it cheaper. How much more power can one make with the 12 over the 24, without drugs? TIA

 

[Cummins4Life]

Easy.

Grind your stock plate flat and slide it almost full forward (free)

Throw in a set of 370 injectors ($300-350)

Throw a 16cm($180) or 18. 5cm(free) exhaust housing on the turbo



^That'll give you over 400hp in a 215pump and 380hp or so in a 180pump



Now thats not the most refined setup. A governor spring kit is a great mod, lets you fuel a lot farther than 2200rpm for around $120. And a bigger turbo would probably be better and give you more power with that much fuel than a housing upgrade.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Easy.

Grind your stock plate flat and slide it almost full forward (free)

Throw in a set of 370 injectors ($300-350)

Throw a 16cm($180) or 18. 5cm(free) exhaust housing on the turbo



^That'll give you over 400hp in a 215pump and 380hp or so in a 180pump



Now thats not the most refined setup. A governor spring kit is a great mod, lets you fuel a lot farther than 2200rpm for around $120. And a bigger turbo would probably be better and give you more power with that much fuel than a housing upgrade.

A cut plate(not a zero) 370, timing, 16cm and a 215 pump gave me 446 on #2 and I stopped there for fear of popping the charger.



Jim

 

[KYOUNG]

power

Hey Jim, I am running a TST #5, seems like its awfully smoky unless its at full boost... is this the stock turbo not enough? or because of non-wastegated housing or both????

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Granted I know little about these fueling "plates" you all talk about, and the different numbers, what do the numbers have to do with? Is it the amount of fuel that can be delivered or... . ? Thanks

 

[tURBOdIEZEl]

you remember what numbers i put down at fall brawl last year, dont you? im somewhere around 430hp with less then 1000 into my engine... . 370's, 191's, a 10plate, 16cm housing, light afc springs, 3kgsk, intake, and exhaust and your set.....

 

[pwerwagn]

The numbers have nothing to do with power, just a number. In a 96-98 5-speed 12V (887/913 pump) you wanna run a 12, 11, or 10. A 12 is 230hp, a 11 is 280hp, and a 10 is 330hp (as rated in stock location by TST). A #10 is the preferred plate (other than a 0 or 100).

A 12V has more power potential than a 24 by all means.

Look at the TST site for the power ratings of different plates in different pumps.

do some searching on here about 370 injectors, GSK's, and plates. you'll learn a lot.

--Jeff

 

[Jim Fulmer]

Hey Jim, I am running a TST #5, seems like its awfully smoky unless its at full boost... is this the stock turbo not enough? or because of non-wastegated housing or both????

Kevin, your setup is fine, the #5 is a good plate for you, there are a few things that can be done to help the bottom end smoke but still allow the top end fuel, that one of the reasons I like to do all the AFC tricks to allow this, a tighter spring setup properly will cure some of that but you do have allot of fuel for a 35, your at the point of needing more air, maybe not Twins but a real good single would help a bunch... ... . it's all in your wallet.



Jim

 

[KennyM]

An easy 448/1004. Just a #10,370's, 3kgsk. Of course you'll need a clutch, the only expensive part. Even with the # 10 cutting back fuel at 2400, the HP stayed well above 400 till the dyno operator let off at 3300 RPM. Since I'm getting ready to sell it I will not know what it will do with a bigger turbo.

 

[Jim Fulmer]

An easy 448/1004. Just a #10,370's, 3kgsk. Of course you'll need a clutch, the only expensive part. Even with the # 10 cutting back fuel at 2400, the HP stayed well above 400 till the dyno operator let off at 3300 RPM. Since I'm getting ready to sell it I will not know what it will do with a bigger turbo.

I'd bet that with one of these http://www.industrialinjection.com/new_products.html it would crack 500.



Jim

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Thanks for the info, I am sure I will be needing advice in the future from you all.

 

[tURBOdIEZEl]

I'd bet that with one of these http://www.industrialinjection.com/new_products.html it would crack 500.



Jim

i'd imagine so

 

[Jesselee]

you guys are lucky you have sticks because my auto is on its last leg so i have to spend money on a new before i can go any farther :{

 

[TReed]

I'm with you on the crappy auto's with my new fuel mods and turbo that I installed, my Built BD transmission is on it's last leg but I guess I can't complain it's only rated for 450HP(TQ) and I'm not sure but I think I'm over that.





Travis

 

[Hammer]

A 12V has more power potential than a 24 by all means

That is a statement a few years ago you may have been able to make,but,now with the advent of all the available fueling boxes for the 24 valve trucks I would disagree with you. In the dyno rips I have put on and been to I have seen numerous 24 valvers in the 400-550 hp range with relatively easy modifications. The once hallowed 600hp mark for those trucks is now a meare threat of the past and now is being reached by 24 valve trucks with single chargers easily. The advent of manufacturers now finding ways to keep them fueled and add the timing down low has those trucks spooling up down low like a 12 valver and making a more efficent usage of the powerband.



With the 24 valve box makers now working more with timing and where its applied I feel the once wide gap of high hp between them and a 12valver will long be a forgotten memory. The 12valvers inherent inability to adjust its timing thru its powerband will lead to its demise in the HP wars and in competition. To make a 12va adjust its timing while its running is a task that can be done but it not one cost wise for the faint of heart. Time will tell where and what will happen next,but,in my opinion modern technology is passing by the old trusty 12v and soon they may become a rare commodity at HP shows and events.



Don. .

I am not sure if this is going to be a addition to your family or your thinking of replacing your squeezes current ride so I'll offer my thought and slip out. Yes,making power with a 12v can be done,as with any of our motors,but,how much easier is a question that will vary from owner to owner. Minor tweaks,mods to the pump,exhaust housing changes and others will make the trucks scoot and please most owners. Those who decide to go further find the cost factors rise for it rise significantly and net only minor gains. The questions you need to answer for yourself before stepping out of your current ride and into a 12v are easy... .

-Do you mind the possibility of loosing your quad cab option as the 12v quad is a hard bird at times to find?.

-Do you like the ability to turn off the power of your 24valver when PA's winter weather turns up as a 12v doesn't not have that option?. (Yes,I do realize we have a valet switch to use but it still doesn't remove all of the juice). -

-Do you like the "plug-n-play" style of HP work or the getting all greasy style of the 12v?.



If you can honestly answer all 3 yes then you know what has to be done. To answer you question as its posted then I'd have to say no,its way easier with a 24v to make power. Not a few years ago the automatic trucks were feared because of a lack of good performance parts,the same happened when the 24 valve trucks came out. That is not the case anymore and its about to the point where the newer electronic trucks have caught and are surpassing our beloved 12 valves daily in many forms of competition. Does that mean more will make the leap to the newer computer scooters,time will tell. Myself,having watched these trucks and their gains the last few years,can honestly say this,at one time you would have never caught me with a 24v or a slushbox. Now,one never knows,it may be time to reconsider that thought and send mine off for a new ride and a slushbox... ... ... ... ... . Andy

 

[JO'Leary]

Well said Hammer

 

[RBrunson]

I am afraid that I am from the old school of mechanical things, sure I use a computer daily but I am still not comfortable with it running my truck. The biggest reason for me not changing is, I love this truck, and it took me a long time to find this one and I am not going to part with it anytime soon. I am running around 275 hp, but I think about another 125 hp will be just right to help get the 36ft fiver over the hills.



If you like Red Doolys check my readers rigs and click on any of the pictures for a close up. I think you will agree that this ones a keeper.

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

I am aiming toward a pulling truck in the future. I wanted to go with a truck that was mechanical, not electronic. I am better off trouble shooting something mechanical than I am electronically. There is nothing wrong with the 24 valve we have, but IMO, already had the VP-44 replaced at 49,000 miles , lift pump replaced with the FASS, ( problem there solved ) but with all the questions of reliability, IMO the mechanical is the way to go.



I have found some 98 QC long bed trucks, actually I thought reasonable price range, but will do some shopping for a while before I decide.



Deal is in the works for my ( her ) truck to be sold. Paying off some mounting medical bills and I will be back in the game.

 

[DieselMinded]

So whats the best year to get as a TOY/PULLER ??



94-95 Crappy pump

??-?? 53 Block

98. 5-02 Crappy Fuel Transfer



All can be fixed but what is the cream of the crop ???



DM

 

[Neibe]

12 valve are for poeple who like to tinker and get there hands dirty with making adjustments under the hood. 24v are for nerdy CPA's who don't like to get there hands dirty. My kids are getting to big for our club cab and I can't seem to get excited about any of the new trucks. Mega cab is mega joke. I want 4-doors DRW Cummins under the hood and a NV5600 in my hand. Maybe I could find a totaled one and I could put my 12v under the hood.