How much power with NO box!?

[JHardwick]

I know that boxes are cheap power. But, I've always figured that there was a price to pay somewhere running fuel pressures and cylinder pressures outside of designed parameters.



Anyway, I've never been a programmer fan, and still aint. But, I never got my Quad to run with my CB and neither did the SPIIe.



So!! How much power (torque) in the 2,000 - 2,500 RPM range is there to be had with mechanical changes only?



Injectors, pump, cam shaft, turbo etc ... ... ...



I know this is more old school and more expensive, but worth exploring.



I haul for a living and my motor has spent the majority of it's 270,000 mile life in the 2,000-2,500 RPM range and I'm looking at torque only numbers here. Torque numbers are the only ones that count when hauling. I could care less about horsepower numbers as long as it didn't completely fall on it's face hitting 3,000 coming up an entrance ramp!

 

[1965LONEWOLF]

well my truck made 296 to the rear tires before i did the tst box , doesn t hook to computer so there is no trace , just my 2 cents

 

[ENafziger]

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not so sure some "mechanical" changes would be that different from "electronic" changes.



For example, in a simplistic sense, larger injectors provide a larger quantity of fuel for each commanded injection event (basically achieving the same result as a "duration" box opening up the pulsewidth).



A modified CP3 that puts out higher pressure/volume would both increase rail pressure, and have the secondary effect of advancing timing slightly (again, similar to a "pressure" box).



Performing the mechanical Roktech mod would effectively be the same as a "timing" box that offered a few degrees of advance.



Going with a larger turbo or twins will definately increase cylinder pressure (as boost pressure increases), especially with the right injector/cp3 combo to fuel it/them.



This may be oversimplifying things, but my initial thoughts are that the suggested mechanical mods may not serve your intended purpose of keeping engine parameters (cylinder pressure, injection pressure, etc) to stock levels and reliability... and in fact may produce the same results as some mild boxes designed for the same purpose. They may, however, be harder for a casual observer to label your engine as "modded" and void of warranty... --Eric

 

[JApol]

If you do go with twins or a large single you will have to at least get a boost fooler so all that extra pressure your turbos are generating won't defuel the truck

 

[betterthanstock]

I know that boxes are cheap power. But, I've always figured that there was a price to pay somewhere running fuel pressures and cylinder pressures outside of designed parameters.



Anyway, I've never been a programmer fan, and still aint. But, I never got my Quad to run with my CB and neither did the SPIIe.



So!! How much power (torque) in the 2,000 - 2,500 RPM range is there to be had with mechanical changes only?



Injectors, pump, cam shaft, turbo etc ... ... ...



I know this is more old school and more expensive, but worth exploring.



I haul for a living and my motor has spent the majority of it's 270,000 mile life in the 2,000-2,500 RPM range and I'm looking at torque only numbers here. Torque numbers are the only ones that count when hauling. I could care less about horsepower numbers as long as it didn't completely fall on it's face hitting 3,000 coming up an entrance ramp!

I did the same on my 03. With stock turbo (I assume you have the HO engine) I gained 32% torque (671 vs 504 ft-lb at the wheels) with DDP honed injectors. They were honed to 26. 5 LPM. No smoke, except at full throttle and no boost, but impossible to smoke past 10 psi.

1250 maximum EGT uphill (with my mods).

Excellent throttle response, no lag. A BIG difference. You just need to watch out for that 6th gear in the NV5600, as you may fry that bearing towing uphill with this much power, so downshift to 5th on hills.

 

[JHardwick]

ENafziger, you are right, mechanical changes will induce the same engine operating parameter changes. I guess what I was really getting at was, I was always afraid of some boxes maybe going overboard with timing. Plus, I am least happy about programmers messing with the factory program. Which seems to be the only option in my case. An although I've tried 3 fooler boxes (Edge EZ, Quad Race, SPIIe), they all have had their quirks ... ... ... codes, rough idle at times, peaky power etc.



It appears that the factory boards are the only boards built to withstand the use of an amped CB, and since I have to choose between a downloader or mechanical changes ... ... ... I'd go with the mechanical changes if there is some real power to be had.



SELLUFISHMAN, I'm not worried about a trace. I've had a box on it since it had 250 miles on it ... ... ... ... it has 250,000 miles now, with stock injectors and turbo. Which is another reason I've been thinking of going all mechanical, they are going to need replacing sometime anyway.



JApol, yup, I hadn't thought of that.



betterthanstock, Yup, it's an HO. 1250* was what I'd get with my EZ. I'd have to "drive by the gage" sometimes with the Quad, and never really got a chance to tow with the SPIIe. As I said above, it's about injector time anyway, but I was figuring on a turbo to maintain decent EGTs. Lag is not a huge concern with a loaded down dually, I "roll in" and "roll out" of the accelerator while rowing gears anyway. I've read a bunch about that 6th gear deal, but so far I've not had any trouble (knock on wood).

 

[BHaden]

I did the same on my 03. With stock turbo (I assume you have the HO engine) I gained 32% torque (671 vs 504 ft-lb at the wheels) with DDP honed injectors. They were honed to 26. 5 LPM. No smoke, except at full throttle and no boost, but impossible to smoke past 10 psi.

1250 maximum EGT uphill (with my mods).

Excellent throttle response, no lag. A BIG difference. You just need to watch out for that 6th gear in the NV5600, as you may fry that bearing towing uphill with this much power, so downshift to 5th on hills.

*******************************************************

I've heard that the DDP honed injectors also can get better economy under part throttle cruise condiditons. Do you have any adea how your mileage was affected by them?

 

[qzilla]

Did you ever try letting us weatherproof your module and then running under the hood?



And yes, you are going to have a hard time finding electronics that work with seriously amped up cb's.

 

[Rams-n-Hogs]

For what it's worth, my truck makes about 80hp, and roughly 200ft/lb over stock, when I have all the boxes turned off. That's how I usually run it when I'm towing. The turbo is a little laggy, but nothing I can't deal with. A 62 series turbo, and a smaller set of injectors would probably make a really good combo, without any electronic changes.

 

[JHardwick]

Did you ever try letting us weatherproof your module and then running under the hood?



And yes, you are going to have a hard time finding electronics that work with seriously amped up cb's.

I tried running it under the hood when I soldered it into a grounded copper box. I just today picked it up from HERE He added chokes to all of the wiring harness. I havn't had a chance to see if it's gonna work yet. If that doesn't work, I'd like to try braiding the wiring in the harnesses as well.



I've been running stock for several months now and need to build some fire!

 

[Tomeygun]

For what it's worth, my truck makes about 80hp, and roughly 200ft/lb over stock, when I have all the boxes turned off. That's how I usually run it when I'm towing. The turbo is a little laggy, but nothing I can't deal with. A 62 series turbo, and a smaller set of injectors would probably make a really good combo, without any electronic changes.

I dont know for sure, But I thought that someone with a PPE dual Cp3 kit and some FLUX 4's put down like 500hp with no boxes...



Course I dont know who it was but I saw it posted over on DTR

 

[LEPage]

well my truck made 296 to the rear tires before i did the tst box , doesn t hook to computer so there is no trace , just my 2 cents

That's funny, they had no trouble telling me what changes the ECM had recorded, although Mark Chapple said it was BS. Warranty denied!