Hows does your 2wd CTD handle in the snow?

[Teich]

manitoba canada,lots of snow freezing rain , 2wd. QC short box Ltx ms-2's approx 600lbs bolted down get around quite good just careful starting up soon as rolling works real nice Laurie

 

[BIGNASTY]

manitoba canada,lots of snow freezing rain , 2wd. QC short box Ltx ms-2's approx 600lbs bolted down get around quite good just careful starting up soon as rolling works real nice Laurie

No way snow in Manitoba Canada your kidding :-laf and only with 2wd

 

[07 ThunderRoad]

Welcome to the rust belt. Bridgestone Dueler APT-IV (4) and 600 lbs at the back of the bed. No need to change tires and I get good stop and go traction in 6' of snow on a side street. I live very close to lake Erie and the lake affect snow it produces. Also spray ALL body electrical ground connections with WD-40, 2 times a year, to prevent corrosion and electrical problems.

 

[MChrist]

Agreed. I posted earlier with some concerns that people were suggesting put 800 lbs in the bed. You have to turn and stop that mass, and all it gains you is some easy at pulling away from a dead stop.

I'm so sorry... but you are WRONG,WRONG,WRONG...



Good handling comes from good weight distribution, which our trucks definitely do NOT have.

Since I don't have the exact weight difference between front to rear at my fingertips, I will say that my 7000 lb truck has about 5000 on the front and 2000 on the rear.

To keep math simple, let's say I add 700 lbs over the rear axle. I have now increased the weight of the vehicle by 10%, but increased traction over the drive tires by 35%.



I've never lost control of the front of my truck, but the rear spins very easily in snow without added weight. In rain, without weight, I still have to be gentle on the throttle. Without added weight, this can happen every stoplight, every turn. With weight, the problem goes away.



Stopping has never been a problem. . starting and going around corners is. Added weight doesn't hurt stopping, it DOES affect starting and going around corners.

I will NEVER go another winter without weight bolted to the bed.

 

[AH64ID]

I has approx 700 lbs in my bed one winter and saw zero gain from it, it's just not enough. My truck is approx 4800/3200 without me in it. I won't run weight just to run weight again, sure it helps you start, but it does hinder braking and cornering. I just prefer to use 4wd, and wouldn't ever live somewhere that got snow/ice without one, especially if you don't own it yet.

I had a ford ranger that the vacuum hubs went out on one winter, it was light had good tires and the stuff I had with me made it about a 55/45 split on weight. . and it was a NIGHTMARE compared to 4wd. I was so angry that I couldn't use 4wd becuase there were lots of times it was plain better.

I am not trying to state that 4wd allows you to be invincible becuase it too has its limitations, its biggest benefit is getting started. It does help considerably on braking and slow speed cornering, but doesn't do much once moving and I usually kick it back into 2wd for straight cruising, even if I'm on snow/ice and then back to 4wd for start/stopping.

 

[Bernie]

but the rear spins very easily in snow without added weight. In rain, without weight, I still have to be gentle on the throttle. Without added weight, this can happen every stoplight, every turn. With weight, the problem goes away.

MChris:

Well, with all respect, you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG (and, if you are counting, that is one more wrong than you gave me, making me the winner).

Joke aside, I do agree with some of the points you make, but some of what you have said helps make my point.

You focused on problems with out extra weight that come from too much throttle input. That is in your control. Learn correct throttle input, and you will not have that problems. All with in your control.

However, with the added weight, if you need to make a panic stop you have less decisions. If you have added 10% more mass, your stopping distance will be roughly 10% more. I know, doesn't happen every day, but when it does, it is important.

Taking that one step further: Now, things have gone wrong, and the back end wants to pass the front. Do you want another 800lbs in the pendulum swinging behind you?

I don't disagree that 50/50 weight is ideal. It is just one of the aspects that affects handling. When dealing with limited traction we need to start looking at mass, slip angles, weight transfer (not just distribution), brake bias, etc.

And, even having 50/50 on each axle (or close to it) doesn't guarantee handling. Have you ever driven an older 911 Porsche in the rain? Of course you haven't, you are still alive.

And again, I don't agree a loaded truck can be more convenient. However, it does limit your options in an emergency.

And, as to my understanding of handling: I road race cars. I track race cars. I rally race cars. I rally cross cars. I have corner balanced cars to achieve certain handling goals. I have a pretty good understanding of handling.

And with all that said, I have never put any additional weight in my truck for Buffalo / Jamestown / Erie winters. Never had a problem, and I rarely (a few times a winter) use 4x4.

And one sweeping statement that applies to all vehicles and all situations: Have the correct tires for the conditions, and learn how to drive for your conditions, and you will be fine. 2WD, FWD, AWD, 4WD. All are second when it comes to proper tires and proper skills.

 

[Brian Sullivan]

Where in mich. It can make a big difference

 

[AH64ID]

One thing I have noticed, maybe its where I live or how I drive, but I have zero of the rain traction issues people talk about and my truck or tq management isn't stock. . I think its smart driving, which also transfers to snow/ice.

The 2 best rigs I have ever driven on snow/ice are a suburban, great weight distro and heavy; and a 4 runner, great weight distro not so heavy, but low on the power (especially my 95 with a 4cyl, but I could go anywhere in that thing).

 

[Teich]

Think that 'smart driving' says it all

 

[GCroyle]

Grew up in OH, spent many days driving in the snow west of Cleveland, not the snow belt but we got belted enough. I have virtually ZERO experience with my CTD in snow, traction will be an issue to deal with, I have been in the wet grass stuck scenario with it though.



Following distance, can't hardly leave enough, gives you a cushion.

When I taught the MSF RSS class (beginner motorcycle) we taught SIPDE Scan, Identify, Predict, Decide and Execute as an active approach to driving conditions.



Wiper blades, keep em fresh. Washer fluid, straight out of the bottle, no dilution. Pack a snow shovel, you might not need it but you might get a chance to help someone else. Long time ago I had of all things a 1965 Ford E-100 pickup (the E is NOT a typo!) IIRC it came from Ford with a weight over the axle so the legend goes. One day had to take Grandma home in a pretty nasty snow, took the shovel and loaded the backend of the bed with snow, mission acomplished. Turn your wipers OFF when parking during a snow, when its go time, scrape snow and ice and make sure the wiper arms are loose, not stuck to the glass. Get a snow mit scraper, a short stout ice scraper and a snow brush. Its not much fun when a coating of snow flies back at your glass or a couple of inches of the crusty heavy stuff slides forward and gives you a white out when you apply brakes, possibly damaging wiper arms in the process. If you are a stickler about avoiding effects of salt corrosion, might want to ask the locals if they are undercoating their keepers or let the salt eat em.



Good luck and enjoy the 4 seasons approach.

 

[EZeis]

My 93 2wd is worthless. It has major trouble with just a snow dusting. I won't drive it to work if they're calling for snow. Also worthless on grass, dirt, gravel and pretty much everything but black top and concrete. Even likes to break traction on rain wet roads. Couldn't even tell you how many times I had it stuck or close to stuck.



That's why I made sure to get a 4wd when I bought my new 07.





Earl

 

[MChrist]

Bernie, with all due respect, you have a relatively stock truck, with the exception of the Goerend trans (like mine). I have extremely responsive twins and a Smarty programmer which makes my particular truck approximately 6. 8 kajillion times more responsive than stock and difficult to rein in on slippery snow without weight in the back.

Not that I'm complaining... just bragging!!

In all seriousness, I will continue to use Blizzaks and my 600 lb steel plate bolted to the bed, with an occasional few bags of salt for good measure when the weatherman says the roads will be icy.
With that combination, I simply don't slip at all, fishtailing is zero, and I really don't believe that stopping is reduced. Rather, I would go so far as to say that it may even be enhanced. Yes, I understand that on paper, and on a racetrack, weight is the enemy. But on a slippery road, I need my tires pressed into the pavement where they will do me some good, not be 10% lighter and have the rear end come around on me or have the anti lock brakes back off because they can't get any traction.

By the way, I spent most of my misspent youth at the track as well. Drag racing my cars, my bikes, and other people's bikes too, because I understood the principles of traction and weight transfer better than most. Also raced sport bikes at Gingerman and Road America. So I, too, know a thing or two about a thing or two... .

You can do what you want, but I would recommend that the OP tries it both ways... go out on a particularly slippery day without anything in the bed, then load up 10 50 lb. bags of salt or sand between the wheel wells. Head out to a parking lot and see how she stops and goes. Then report back. I'd like to hear the results...

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

I've gotten around with my 2nd and 3rd Gen 2wd trucks in the snow pretty well even on the stock tires, but both had limited slip. . . wouldn't even try it without LSD. A lot of being able to get around boils down to driver ability and decent tires. But the worst situation is trying to get started on an incline, pretty much impossible, you'd need 4wd to do that. Since we don't get much snow it generally takes awhile for the streets to get cleared when it does come, not many plows around, so there has been a couple times I couldn't get going after having to stop.

In general out on the road I prefer 2wd in the snow because the lower stance gives you better stability.

As for the discussion of adding weight in the bed, putting 6-800 lbs in the bed of a 2wd only makes it as heavy as a 4x4, with better weight distribution.

By the way my 2wd '98 12-valve was bought new in Michigan.

 

[TboneMan]

"Mountain/Snowflake" rated tires (snow tires, not just "off-road" tires) are a must.



While my truck is 4WD, I only use it in the worst of conditions. The key is snow tires on ALL 4 WHEELS. (and I live in a area that receives the most snow this side of the Rocky's).



Yes, mountain/snowflake tire wear out quickly... . they are suppose to! It is the softer rubber compound that allows you to stop and accelerate in low friction conditions. It is basic physics.

 

[MChrist]

"Mountain/Snowflake" rated tires (snow tires, not just "off-road" tires) are a must.



While my truck is 4WD, I only use it in the worst of conditions. The key is snow tires on ALL 4 WHEELS. (and I live in a area that receives the most snow this side of the Rocky's).



Yes, mountain/snowflake tire wear out quickly... . they are suppose to! It is the softer rubber compound that allows you to stop and accelerate in low friction conditions. It is basic physics.

Agreed. And don't get "big 'n huge" tires, either. Narrower tires cut through the snow better and get you down to the pavement easier. I went with stock size Blizzaks. . 265/70/17. When these wear out, I may consider even narrower.

 

[SBall]

Assuming everyone here is talking about single rear wheel trucks, allow me to chime in as a dually owner. My 2wd dually is arguably the worst configuration for snow. I've found that 600 pounds in the bed is about the minimum required, and if I could safely load up 1000 pounds I'd do it. What also helps me get around in snow is a set of Cooper Discoverer M&S on the rear duals, and a set of chains on the outside rears when the going gets really tough. At least the dually rig is easy to chain up quickly by driving up onto blocks with the inside tires.

A final note . . If I load up the ol-Lance camper, the rig plows through deep snow pretty good as it then has a slight rear-weight bias, a good excuse to go skiing!

 

[MChrist]

One last point to dispute what others have said about weight in the bed being "dangerous" because it throws off the handling and makes the truck harder to stop when streets are snowy/slippery:

Our big, tandem axle vacuum trucks at work are terrible in the winter when their tanks are empty. We can barely back into driveways without a running start when our trucks are empty. Our trucks can fishtail very easily while empty, and I make sure that all my guys understand that going around corners or stopping is much more dangerous while empty.
When full (around 48,000lbs) our trucks are invincible. They stop much more quickly because they aren't skating on top of the snow. Traction is night/day between empty/full. Safety is night/day between empty/full. Stopping distance is shorter and much more controlled when full vs empty.
So let's get beyond the obvious statement that a heavier truck is harder to stop than a lighter truck, shall we??? This simply doesn't apply when the streets are slippery due to snow/slush. Simple math doesn't apply here. . physics does, and unless you understand physics the way I do, please don't confuse those who are simply trying to learn.

If simple math applied here, why can the guy who plows snow for me do all his plowing in 2WD with a load of sand in his bed, while my tenant can barely push his plow in 4WD with his RamCharger and big, knobby, aggressive tires?
SIMPLE math SIMPLY doesn't apply... ... . get over it.

 

[hobigusn]

MChris:



Well, with all respect, you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG (and, if you are counting, that is one more wrong than you gave me, making me the winner).



Joke aside, I do agree with some of the points you make, but some of what you have said helps make my point.



You focused on problems with out extra weight that come from too much throttle input. That is in your control. Learn correct throttle input, and you will not have that problems. All with in your control.



However, with the added weight, if you need to make a panic stop you have less decisions. If you have added 10% more mass, your stopping distance will be roughly 10% more. I know, doesn't happen every day, but when it does, it is important.



Taking that one step further: Now, things have gone wrong, and the back end wants to pass the front. Do you want another 800lbs in the pendulum swinging behind you?



I don't disagree that 50/50 weight is ideal. It is just one of the aspects that affects handling. When dealing with limited traction we need to start looking at mass, slip angles, weight transfer (not just distribution), brake bias, etc.



And, even having 50/50 on each axle (or close to it) doesn't guarantee handling. Have you ever driven an older 911 Porsche in the rain? Of course you haven't, you are still alive.



And again, I don't agree a loaded truck can be more convenient. However, it does limit your options in an emergency.



And, as to my understanding of handling: I road race cars. I track race cars. I rally race cars. I rally cross cars. I have corner balanced cars to achieve certain handling goals. I have a pretty good understanding of handling.



And with all that said, I have never put any additional weight in my truck for Buffalo / Jamestown / Erie winters. Never had a problem, and I rarely (a few times a winter) use 4x4.



And one sweeping statement that applies to all vehicles and all situations: Have the correct tires for the conditions, and learn how to drive for your conditions, and you will be fine. 2WD, FWD, AWD, 4WD. All are second when it comes to proper tires and proper skills.

I don't think there is such thing as an emergency stop on snow/ ice for one. 2wd stops the same as a 4wd. The brake are the same but the added weight in the back you need in a 2wd to get going can be a factor in stopping even thou the 4wd weights more by itself. So you belive that a 2wd will get moving fine as long as you keep your foot out of the throttle? What about all that torque? At the stop lights you are sitting on a sheet of ice.

 

[hobigusn]

Where in mich. It can make a big difference

South east, southern Michigan. In Suburbs as of right now. I may move around Traverse City depending on where work send me.

 

[AH64ID]

2wd stops the same as a 4wd.

Not true. I always get better braking in 4wd than 2wd. With the center diff locked if you are in low enough traction that both rear tires would lock up, or engage abs, in 2wd they can do that. . but in 4wd that would mean one of the front tires would also have to lock up, or abs. . But with the weight of the motor that's not as easy.



I have noticed better braking in 4wd vs 2wd on every rig I have owned, even ones with a 50:50 weight distro.