Hub centered rims and NON-hub centered rims

[Motorhead]

Tire time, and I have wanted since I bought my '07 new, to install a set of 285-75-17 tires. I found a LAST set of Centerline 8.5x17 with +32 offset. They STOPPED making them due to lack of sales. I guess all the uneducated clowns out there in 4wd land likes to have half of their tire sticking out past the fenders!! These fit real nice on the truck. http://centerlinewheels.com/wheels_detail.php?mw_id=125&sw_id=1089 Here is the spec page. http://centerlinewheels.com/wheels_detail.php?mw_id=125&sw_id=1089
The dynatrac hub centers have about 4.5mm CLEARANCE between the OD of the FRONT bearing hub and the ID of the Centerline wheel. I haven't yet checked the rim against the rear axle. SO.... What is the opinion of NOT having the wheel center on the front hub and center only on the lugs? Anyone know of an outfit that will sell rings to compensate for the 4.5mm or so thickness by 5.125 ID of the wheel? or will I be OKAY?? Another HIVE! Our trucks with STOCK wheels are HUB centered.
Suggestions?? Thought of building some rings but finding large OD (5" to 6") tube stock is hard.

 

[Dean Arthaud]

Don't put a non hub centric wheel on a hub centric hub! Won't work and if it does (even with a spacer) it will be short lived at best and you won't like it when you have to change a wheel or worse; walk.....

 

[p-Bar]

Ditto Dean

 

[Dean Arthaud]

I have always learned more from what I did wrong than .....Oh well ; what he said above...Good experience doesn't come from bad judgment.....EVER! You have to get the wheels that fit your deal; always....disaster follows if you don't. Corvettes, Rams, Kenworths, etc...always get the right wheel; you won't be sorry.

 

[Motorhead]

Thanks... I'll bet that if you look at almost any aftermarket wheel that someone has put on the Dodge, you'll find that it doesn't hub fit well. Even stock wheels on the dodge, I wonder what the clearance between the OD of the hub on either the front or rear axle and the ID of the stock wheels. I'll have to measure that.
SO... What would be the issue by having the wheels "Lug Centered" on the 8 lug wheel instead of hub centered?

 

[seafish]

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but why wouldn't you simply mount the 285/75/17 tires on your stock rims???

Lotsa people, including myself before I put the 19.5 wheels on, do so with absolutely no issues.

 

[Motorhead]

Maybe I am misunderstanding something, but why wouldn't you simply mount the 285/75/17 tires on your stock rims???

Lotsa people, including myself before I put the 19.5 wheels on, do so with absolutely no issues.

seafish.. I just wanted something different and the 285 tires are almost an inch wider so I wanted to add rim width when I added tire width.
Are you saying the 19.5's center hole in the rim is larger than the stock Dodge rim?

 

[Regcabguy]

Motorhead,
I saw a truck a week ago that's had Centerline's 17 X 8.5 x 6" backspace for many years. The 8.5 bs should enable you to run higher pressure without the premature center wearing I've experienced with the stockers. Due to my constant camper weight,I've got to run pretty high psi for sidewall stability. The Centerline's seemed to hug the axle pretty close. I don't know if that's what they offer now.

 

[seafish]

Are you saying the 19.5's center hole in the rim is larger than the stock Dodge rim?

I think NOT, but I'll check for you tomorrow...I was only implying that the oem wheels DO work for a 285/75/17 tire size, and actaully look darn good with that size on them.
Personally, the only wheel that I do like better then the oem forged aluminums wheels ARE the Rickson forged aluminums, but to each his own!!

 

[Motorhead]

seafish, I am understood that the stock aluminum wheels on the 2007 are cast wheels and not forged?
I am mainly concerned whether I need to worry about the wheels hub centering. Even the stockers have about 20 thousandths clearance between the wheel ID and the hub OD. The Centerlines are DODGE specific but I don't understand why they are so much bigger in the center hole. I'll call Centerline on Monday

 

[NIsaacs]

seafish, I am understood that the stock aluminum wheels on the 2007 are cast wheels and not forged?
I am mainly concerned whether I need to worry about the wheels hub centering. Even the stockers have about 20 thousandths clearance between the wheel ID and the hub OD. The Centerlines are DODGE specific but I don't understand why they are so much bigger in the center hole. I'll call Centerline on Monday

As long as the new wheels are also stud centric (tapered stud hole) and tapered lug nuts you will be fine. The center hole is bigger so the wheels can be more universal, that way they will fit most 8 bolt hubs. If the wheels are hub centric only (flat faced with flat faced/washer type lug nuts) then they won't work.

Nick

 

[hcole]

As long as the new wheels are also stud centric (tapered stud hole) and tapered lug nuts you will be fine. The center hole is bigger so the wheels can be more universal, that way they will fit most 8 bolt hubs. If the wheels are hub centric only (flat faced with flat faced/washer type lug nuts) then they won't work.

Nick

This makes sense to me.

 

[sag2]

I recall a truck a few years ago that came into the dealer every few months with several of the lug studs sheared off. The customer was trying to sue Chrysler. One look at the lug centered aftermarket lug centered wheels by the legal inspector and it was over. The selling dealer ended up paying big time. Apparently every time it came in the lube kid got it to throw some more studs in it. It was a 1/2 ton truck with five studs, but really drove the point home about hub vs. lug centric and load carrying. It never actually lost a wheel, but I'm sure was a bit concerning to drive it!

 

[seafish]

The center hole on my oem wheels is 4.75" diameter and fits just around the lip of the hub....the center hole on the Ricksons is 5.0625" and there IS a gap between the wheel and the hub.
Personally, I do not think that would be a problem with properly designed wheels and that are properly installed with lugnuts properly and evenly torqued...Rickson has sold MANY of these wheels expressly for using with our trucks to INCREASE wheel load capacity...if there was a problem, I am sure that we would have heard about it by now. All taht being said, everyone should make their own desicion as to what they feel safe with.

 

[TRAMPLINEMAN]

I put aftermarket rims on my VW, I know it's not a truck, but they were not hub centric. The company I bought them from wouldn't sell them to me without me buying the centering rings for them. No problem, I bought and installed the rings. Put over 200K miles on that setup with no problems.

I also put aftermarket rims on my '97 CTD that were not hub centric. I installed rings on those and put 130K miles with no problems.

 

[seafish]

The aftermarket VW wheels that I bought for my qifes TDI also came with hubcentric rings, and they are NOT necessary with a PROPER installation, they DO make a proper installation easier11

http://thesquealingtire.com/hub-centric-rings-defined/

 

[seafish]

And then there is this opposing opinion on the ABSOLUTE necessity for hubcentric rings, but I tend to think that the first link is a more reasonable approach to the issue--

http://tires.about.com/od/understanding_wheels/a/hub-centric-vs-lug-centric-wheels.htm

 

[Motorhead]

I put aftermarket rims on my VW, I know it's not a truck, but they were not hub centric. The company I bought them from wouldn't sell them to me without me buying the centering rings for them. No problem, I bought and installed the rings. Put over 200K miles on that setup with no problems.

I also put aftermarket rims on my '97 CTD that were not hub centric. I installed rings on those and put 130K miles with no problems.

Where did you buy the rings?

 

[Motorhead]

I found this company and they custom build hub centric rings. $25.00 each. http://www.motorsport-tech.com/hub_rings.html

 

[LFalconer]

Seafish, You may get away with using the lug centric wheels - the whole engineering point of the hub centric wheel and the tight tolerance is that the weight of the load transfers from the wheel to the hub, not the lug nuts / studs. The lug function is the hold the wheel onto the hub assembly, not carry the weight per se.

You can find examples where folks use lug centric wheels on HD trucks, however the hub diameter of Dodge and Chevy is 6.5" or 165.1 mm. Ford switched in 99 to a 170mm hub, that is why the older Ford, Chevy Dodge 8 lug wheels will not fit a Super Duty, hub is too small.

Good luck with your decision, but I will keep the hub centric wheels. I currently have 285-70-17 Nitto Terra Grapplers on stock Dodge Aluminum wheels. I tow heavy at times, 13K+ with a gooseneck trailer loaded with hay. The entire suspension system needs to be able to handle the stresses involved. Static pin weight with the 13K load is ~ 2900 lbs. Add the stresses of driving, with the bumps and suspension movement naturally encountered and the instantaneous loads are a peak function of a sinusoidal mathematical function, or simply put 2900 x 1.4 = 4060 lbs pin weight add this to the nominal rear axle weight of 3200 x 1.4 = 4480 + 4060 = 8560 which divided by 2 for each wheel is 4270 lbs in a worse case situation for instantaneous loading.

Point is there is engineering margins built into the entire suspension system [25 to 35%] to handle worse case loading factors - with lug centric wheels, the lugs where not designed to handle this weight and could result in damage or an accident if heavily loaded.



Good Luck --

Luke