HX-35 Upgrade on 91 W250

[Why Not]

Well after reading this I am thinking about what I had planned to do on my 93 D250 truck. The thought process was to install a stock HX35W from a 99 5. 9 in place of the stock turbo. I was also going to replace the intercooler with a 99 Ford powerstroke intercooler to get a bigger intercooler with 3" inlet and outlets. To go with the HX35W turbo and intercooler I also got the 3" tubing to go between the turbo/intercooler/intake elbow. The intake elbow is also off of a 99 5. 9. Along with different turbo I am planning on putting a 4" exhaust system on the truck as well. After installing the turbo/intercooler/intake elbow the plan is to install new injectors and pump. I have been also considering changing to the 94 and newer pump. Before any changes are made I am going to install gauges to moniter the engine so that I have before and after readings. Any thoughts on these changes for my engine.



Thanks



Why Not (Chris)

 

[Greenleaf]

Chris,



All sounds on line with what others have done. Except the inline (P7100) pump. That will take you to the 800 RWHP range and you will need to reconfigure **ALL** your other upgrades. Not to mention the change of the cam along with other parts/items.



Sounds like you are on line to operate a modified VE with 300 HP and very managable and (usable) EGT's OR 350 HP and experience some management problems solved via the right foot. A larger turbo (one w/a larger turbine wheel) will result in more magagement of the exhaust temps. If you keep things in perspective the HX-35 will net good results. It will not, however, be suited for a modified P-7100.

 

[dpuckett]

Yes, 400 useable HP have been proven with the VE, which is straining everything behind it as it is. Unless you just HAVE to have that big dyno number, I'd think 350-400 would be all you could use anyway. All the power in the world is useless if you cant get it to hook to the ground.



So, to answer the question of why a 400hp turbo from a 2ndGen wont work on a 400hp 1stGen, it is my understanding that the VE flows more fuel on the lower end of the spectrum than the P7100/ VP44 at the same power levels. Couple that with reduced airflow, (smaller IC and inlets) and you run into EGT issues. I have a stock H1C on my truck, with stock inejctors and double stock fuelling, and can get hot. The 14cm housing made absolutely no difference in overall EGTs, I think, due to the restrictive nature. So I ported the 18 and sold the 14. It does ok for me for now, but when it comes time to upgrade the turbo, I may have to look into a Schwitzer (sp?) or HX40 variant.



GL- have you done any research into a 1stGen cam? I know of only one vendor that sells them, and have heard good things about the 2nd and 3rdGen cams, but not much on 1sts. I think a cam might hlep bgilbert break 450.



DP

 

[Why Not]

When you talk about modified VE pump, is that just turning or tuning of the fuel screw to get what is needed. Or should a person look at using the Bully Dog fuel pin to help in these modifications. As for the injectors should I keep them at a 225 HP range, or is a 300 HP injector OK. Will I have any fuel supply problems with the stock fuel pump system. I like the idea of not having to change to the later model pump, much easier. My target is to have a truck that will run good, and pull when needed (car trailer with car or Jeep) with out problems. My target has been a 300 HP truck. I am still running the stock Getrag (rebuilt) and I know that high horse power is an issue for the Getrag. Currently the truck has 3. 54 gears with Toyo 305/70R/16. The biggest tire that will go on the truck will a 35" Toyo. Thanks for the information and direction and support.



Why Not (Chris)

 

[Leper]

another thread for me to keep looking at.

 

[TBurow]

i took the fuel pin out of my truck and plugged off both ends of the boost line going to the afc, now all my fueling is controlled by my right foot and when the governor cuts out the fuel, real easy to keep egt's under control with a light foot, or turn the sky black with a heavy foot. pulls like a s. o. b. when i get on it now

 

[Forrest Nearing]

why do you have to change the cam if you go w/ a P7100? they are independant of eachother

 

[Moab4x4]

Cam: I got mine from PDR, DD had one too for 1st gen. I don't know what is different between 1 and 2 gen, but both suppliers specify a different cam with the different IPs.

TBurow, do you have anything to keep the little pin that rides on the fuel pin from popping out into the fuel pin bore too far? The pin can and does work its way into the bore and once past the o-ing, fuel leaks into the afc housing. Low pressure fuel is on one side of that pin and atmospheric pressure on the other.

On Edit: Been told that the o-ring is next to the bore on the guide pin so it shouldn't leak there. Some say yes some say no. This must be variable by pump ??? I don't think I will pursue trying to make mine leak for the sake of research. https://www.turbodieselregister.com...993-running-without-fuel-pin.html#post1212220
Ken

 

[dpuckett]

Forrest Nearing- I think they meant the cam has to be REMOVED to go to a P7100 pump. while you have it out for hig performance changes, may as well go to a performance cam.



why not- You WILL need to go to a low pressure piston style lift pump, or an electic fuel pump to keep up with the fuel demands of 300+ hp. I really need one, but I can keep it under control now, IF I dont loan it out to anyone.



DP

 

[Why Not]

Started the modifications today. Put in a pair of gauges yesterday to get a base line. Full boost was 17/18 pounds and hottest temp was 800 degrees. I am already running a 16cm exhaust housing that has been ported and polished. Turned up the fuel screw 2 turns and give the smoke screw about 1 3/4 turn. Blows a little smoke, but what I would call a lite fog or haze, not a cloud. Took the truck back out for a run and now I got as high as 28 pounds of boost and hottest my temp got was 850/875 degrees. What a difference a few turns makes. I am also going to bump up the timing a little to see what that gives me for better performance. Then I am will run this for a few days and see what I think. Then it will be time to start on changing out the intercooler/tubes/intake elbow and see what that does for me. I also need to get my 4" Stan's Headers exhaust system ordered. Will keep everyone posted as I move forward.



Why Not (Chris)

 

[sdstriper]

Why Not (Chris), Are you running your pyro probe after the turbo or before the turbo?

 

[dpuckett]

Sounds like readings my 91 gave when it was post turbo. Putting it pre turbo was a real wakeup call. So much for the 300deg or 1psi:10deg rule. I had a solid 450deg difference, and still climbing when I let off the skinny pedal.



DP

 

[Why Not]

I am running my pyro after turbo about 3" from the outlet of the turbo. I drove the truck about 140 miles today. I saw 900 degrees at the most. Running down the road it would sit at about 675 to 725 at 70 mph until you pulled a hill. With the cruise set it never got over 850 degrees. My current exhaust is a 3" straight from the engine to the tailpipe. The smoke level is a lite haze unless you stand on it, and then is still not what I would call a thick fog or cloud. I can drive the truck and not put out any smoke unless I crowd the pedel and have fun. I never stood on the truck hard enought to get the boost over 20 pounds. Runs out great and I can already tell the fuel comsumption is better.



Why Not (Chris)

 

[PToombs]

I agree with the others, you should move the pyro probe. 900* post turbo is pretty hot, it could be 1300 or 1400* and that doesn't help anything!

 

[sdstriper]

I am running my pyro after turbo about 3" from the outlet of the turbo. I drove the truck about 140 miles today. I saw 900 degrees at the most. Running down the road it would sit at about 675 to 725 at 70 mph until you pulled a hill. With the cruise set it never got over 850 degrees. My current exhaust is a 3" straight from the engine to the tailpipe. The smoke level is a lite haze unless you stand on it, and then is still not what I would call a thick fog or cloud. I can drive the truck and not put out any smoke unless I crowd the pedel and have fun. I never stood on the truck hard enought to get the boost over 20 pounds. Runs out great and I can already tell the fuel comsumption is better.



Why Not (Chris)

I figured it was post turbo. I highly recommend you move it so you more accurately see what you could be doing to your truck. Many people have drilled the manifold without removing the turbo etc. Including myself, check it out...



Gauge Install

 

[dpuckett]

Plus, 3" from the turbo outlet will let one run EGT as high as mine does (800 @ 70mph) and give no indication.



I'm sure there is someone who would be willing to help, for maybe a case of favorite beverages? (To be consumed AFTER the trip home, if fermented and brewed)

DP

 

[Why Not]

I installed a pyro pre turbo and was not overly concerned with my readings. I am seeing at most 1325 degrees pre and 1025 post. I turned the pump back down and only lost 100 degrees across the readings. My readings with the pump turned back to the stock settings on the fuel screw gave me a 925 post and 1225 pre hard throttle. Running down the highway I am running 675 / 975, turned up I am running 775 / 1050. I am using a Auto Meter Phantom II pyro for both gauges. Over the week I went and picked up a John Deere D tractor for my dad. I never saw my temps over the 1350/1025 mark. The local Cummins rep (tech lead) told me that I could run the temps hotter and not be concerned. I can hammer on the truck and the temps climb, but not what I would call fast. My buddies 01 is running about the same to maybe a little hotter and he has turned his motor UP. Any thoughts as to what I have found out?



Why Not (Chris)

 

[dpuckett]

Is your 975 empty with no trailer, or are you pulling something? Most guys run 100deg per 10mph, so you sound a little hot. If your temps increase just because of AVAILABLE fuelling, you have something not right inside the pump. It should run close to the same under the same conditions, no matter what is left under the pedal.



DP

 

[Why Not]

The 975 degrees was with a 36' foot above deck triple axle trailer with the John Deere D tractor on the trailer. That temp was pulling hills. On the flat with the load the temp was running 775/825.



Why Not (Chris)

 

[Forrest Nearing]

you should really put that pyro before the turbo