hydraulic winches

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Aloha,
I have a 2000 2500 slt 4X4 TD 5spd on order and was considering installing the Milemarker Hydraulic winch (or any other hydraulic powered winch). This unit runs off the power steering pump. I was wondering if anyone is using this and if they have had any problems or suggestions. I ordered the truck with the heavy duty transfer case (PTO) and am wondering if that would be the better option because of the waranty issues. I live on the Island of Kauai and plan on doing a lot of off roading. It rains a lot and the trails get really slippery. I want something that won't tax my batteries to death. I am a Ham radio operator (WH6FG)that runs mobile and the amp draws enough power. Mahalo for any help you can give.
I am new to TDR. I currently own an 89 F350 crew cab dualy with 7. 3ltr diesel auto trans. FORD backwards is "Driver Returns On Foot"

 

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I have a "hidden winch" bumper from pro-zap. but I do not have a winch yet. No budget yet, the bumper cost enough. I was also weighing the electric vs. hydraulic. If anuone else out there installed a hydraulic I would also like to know. Especially on the hydraulic brake booster setup on the later years. 97?, 98, 99, Thanx

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P. Campbell 1998. 5 ISB 2500 auto green/driftwood

 

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Well hellow pilgram, (in his best "Duke" immitation) I have never used a HYD winch, but the off road store here says they work well. I have a 8000 lb Ramsey mounted on a front reciever hitch. I went this way because I wanted to be able to use it in back of the truck or on the front of my flatbed trailer. I also had an Elect Warn (8000 lb)on my 76 F-250 4x4, I never had any problem with batt drain as I always kept the engine running while winching. Many years back I worked for The Cleveland Metro Parks Dept. and we had a 72 Dodge Power Wagon with a PTO Ramsey . WOW! now THAT was a winch. We would use it to skid logs out of areas were we didn't want to tear up the parks grass. Also every spring we had to drag picknic tables up from where the vandals had thrown them over the sides of cliffs. One of us would drag the cable down and hook on, then ride and guide the upside down table back up the hill. We would have a third person as signalman to the operator in the truck. The great thing about a PTO winch is the SPEED and POWER is controlled by what gear the trans is in, and how heavy your right foot is. We could creeeep a table up in first or second if it needed to be guided alot, or if it was on an open hillside, stick that sucker in 4th gear and that table would screeem up the hill. "Warning Will Robinson" DANGER! DANGER! one has to be very carefull with a PTO winch. It won't STALL like elect, and you can snap cables and do other damage more readily than with any other kind of winch. Had I not needed my winch in back, I would have considered a PTO. There are alot of good winches out there, PTO, elect. HYD and they all will do a good job. In your case if $$$ is no drawback I would say PTO, next HYD, and for the short time you would be winching you could turn the radio off and still get the job done without a problem with an elect. Hope this has totally confused you, (just kidding) helped you, good luck and Happy Rammin. Dave Hauser

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Dave Hauser, 96 3500 4x4 extended, auto 4:10 LSD, K&N, tow hooks, fog lights, custom front reciever hitch and mount for 8000 Ramsey winch, alum diamond plate box and running boards, Dodge dually mudflaps, tow 18' flatbed, 69 Vette, 89 HD FLHS

 

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Dave, could you post info on what manufacturers offer a PTO winch compatible with the Ram.

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Jeff Bechtel
97 RAM,2500HD,Std Cab,4X4
4. 10 LSD,AT,LWB,plow

 

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JB, I just typed in www.ramsey.com and got their web page. They offer HYD and PTO winches in addition to elect. PTO in pulls rangeing 3000-45000 lbs. I don't know if Warn offers PTO. If one is going to use there rig for extended winching, PTO is the way to go, but expect to pay half again what a elect. winch costs last time I checked. (long time ago) Hope this helps, Happy Rammin. Dave

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Dave Hauser, 96 3500 4x4 extended, auto 4:10 LSD, K&N, tow hooks, fog lights, custom front reciever hitch and mount for 8000 Ramsey winch, alum diamond plate box and running boards, Dodge dually mudflaps, tow 18' flatbed, 69 Vette, 89 HD FLHS

 

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I've had some experience with both electric and hydraulic winches, specifically the Milemarker 2-speed hydraulic winch. In theory the Milemarker should be a great product but in real world use it has several major drawbacks. First, it won't work unless the motor is running. Usually not much of a problem for our diesels, but insurmountable if you can't start the engine. Second, it's painfully slow and has a tendency for its clutch to slip in a real hard pull. I witnessed this first hand, since it was my Jeep that was being pulled! It wasn't pleasant being almost out of trouble, then having 5 feet of cable slip back out.

One of the 4x4 magazines did a comparison between the Milemarker and a Warn winch a couple of years ago. Everyone was real gung-ho on the Milemarker and really expected it to do well, but a series of failures doomed its performance (power steering pump failed, replacement power steering pump failed, etc). Since that article, many of us serious off-roaders haven't even considered the Milemarker product again. And seeing one in action caused me to replace my broken Ramsey Pro Plus 9000 with a new 4. 6 hp Warn XD9000i.

Mike B.



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'98 RAM 2500 4x4 CC LWB Auto 12v 4. 10s Intense Blue, Sport, TST Power Kit, TCS Converter, TransGo
Diesel Shift Kit, M/T 16x8 Classics, BFG AT LT295/75R16, PIAA 90 Pro, ISSPRO Boost,Pyro,Trans Temp
'98 Texas Bragg 20' 12,000# GVW Tandem Axle Utility Trailer
'97 Jeep Wrangler Sahara

 

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Here is my penny worth. If your just needing a short recovery from an area then an electric winch would be fine. If on the other hand you are pulling long and hard than a PTO winch is great or a Hydraulic winch would work better because you don't have to worry about battery recovery rate and over heating the winch motor. A PTO or Hydraulic winch (like Mike said) will only work if your motor is running where an electric would pull until the battery died.
I'm considering running a hydraulic pump off the PTO and having quick connect fluid lines ran to both front and rear so you could use the winch at either end.
Here are some contacts that I have looked at: http://www.ramsey.com http://www.rawson-koenig.com http://www.warn.com/ http://www.dpwinch.com/ http://www.superwinch.com/ http://www.ptospecialties.com/

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99 2500, QC, SLT, 4x4 ISB, 5sp, 3. 55sld, Infiniti am/fm/cd, HDTcase, NW Running Boards and Mud flaps, Draw-Tite Front Mount Receiver Hitch, Tekonsha Brake Control, SRW and Husky Liners.

 

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I have a Mile Marker hydraulic winch that I use with my farm tractor. I would like to use it on my new truck as well. I hope to have a PTO driven hydraulic pump installed on the transfer case to supply pressure to both the front and rear of the truck. The winch itself is mounted on a plate that will slip into a standard 2" receiver hitch.
I have used my winch around the hills here, mostly to haul logs from the woods. It has worked very well for that, but I admit that I still haven't found a 6000 pound log, although I haven't found one with wheels either.
Speed is controlled by selecting either of two gear ratios at the winch and varying the hydraulic flow. This is easily done at my tractor valve, but might require some work for installation on a pickup. I understand that Mile Marker has recently introduced a remote control for the winch, but I don't know anything about it.
I haven't had any reason to be dissatisfied with my winch, but I don't intend to ever run it from a power steering pump.

 

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Loren,
I caught your post in the PTO thread. I had made an email reply to Zorro on a question about the safety issues of a receiver mounted winch. It is as follows:

Aloha Martin,
I guess I should have gone into greater detail about why I thought it was
unsafe. I based it on the post from Loren. Milemarker makes a 9000# and a
10,500 and a 12,000# 2 speed winch. Since he was talking about mounting it
on his 2000 QC I made the assumption it was a 10,500# unit. If we were
talking Jeeps or small trucks here, I wouldn't worry too much but this forum
is Dodge/Cummins... . The carrier from all the manufactures are rated at
9000#... You will notice that the mount from the Superwinch page is rated at
9000# vertical pull due to the dual receivers. But for the rear they just
say don't exceed the manufactures rated weight. The thing to keep in mind
here is the word VERTICAL PULL. That would relate to tongue weight. I don't
think that your hitch is rated at 10,000# tongue weight, but horizontal
push/pull. If you think about it, all pulls aren't likely to be horizontal
pulls. I went out after work tonight and got stuck in a mud hole and the
only available tree to hook on to was 25' up the side of a mountain, maybe a
60 degree pull. With the ruts, rocks and mud working against you, what do
you think the actual vertical/horizontal pulling weights will be? By adding
a pulley block you can double your pulling capacity. The winch will pull
half as fast but that 10,500# winch can now pull 21,000# if need be. What do
you think will give first? See what I mean! The thing is, you never know
what the conditions will be. Better over rated than under rated. If you have
questions or comments, I welcome the interchange of info. I don't know it
all and never will. Always seeking knowledge.

Aloha, Jim
http://www.off-road.com/dodge/tech/mmkrec.html http://www.winchesplus.com/winches.htm http://www.teleport.com/~winches/mount.htm http://www.superwinch.com/smount.htm http://www.warn.com/Home/
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I am not sure what winch you have, The 9,000# or the 10,500# model.

As you can see I have since received my truck ans have installed the winch using the power steering pump. I am not thrilled with that (the warenty issues involved) and want to install a pto operated pump and put power steering pump back to normal. Living on an island, I don't have access to any hydraulic dealers so I have just been poking the internet trying to get an education before installing the PTO myself.
Just my dollar two ninety eight worth... .
Aloha, Jim

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Y2K, 2500, SLT, QC, 4X4, Medium Bronze,Trailer tow pkg, Milemarker Hydraulic winch w/Warn Transformer mount & brush guard, Highway Products 5th wheel toolbox, Con Truck rack, Genuine Steel tube steps,
Spray-in bed liner, 2mtr ham rig (HF & Screwdriver antenna soon), Ham Radio Call WH6FG

 

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Buy the electric. It works perfect for 99% of the winching any of us will do. With a good battery and your truck running you will never have a problem. A winch only has to pull near peak output usually for a few feet, and then at a lot less once it gets you moving to get you out of trouble. My Warn 9000 has yet to not do the job.

 

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Buy the electric. It works perfect for 99% of the winching any of us will do. With a good battery and your truck running you will never have a problem. A winch only has to pull near peak output usually for a few feet, and then at a lot less once it gets you moving to get you out of trouble. My Warn 9000 has yet to not do the job.

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99 QC SB 4x4 5sp. 3. 55 lsd, 33x12. 50x16. 5 BFG mud terrains, 9000# warn winch, 3" no muff, K\N scotty style, looking for more

 

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Buy the electric. It works perfect for 99% of the winching any of us will do. With a good battery and your truck running you will never have a problem. A winch only has to pull near peak output usually for a few feet, and then at a lot less once it gets you moving to get you out of trouble. My Warn 9000 has yet to not do the job.

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99 QC SB 4x4 5sp. 3. 55 lsd, 33x12. 50x16. 5 BFG mud terrains, 9000# warn winch, 3" no muff, K\N scotty style, looking for more

 

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Buy the electric. It works perfect for 99% of the winching any of us will do. With a good battery and your truck running you will never have a problem. A winch only has to pull near peak output usually for a few feet, and then at a lot less once it gets you moving to get you out of trouble. My Warn 9000 has yet to not do the job.

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99 QC SB 4x4 5sp. 3. 55 lsd, 33x12. 50x16. 5 BFG mud terrains, 9000# warn winch, 3" no muff, K\N scotty style, looking for more

 

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I am also considering the hydraulic Milemarker and would like to know if the winch is rated for a PTO pump. It is setup for about 1500 psi and 4 gallons per minute, but if a PTO puts out around 10-15 gpm, will it destroy the winch? They use White hydraulic motors I think. Anyone know? Truck will be used for Search and Rescue so winch may need to be used for extended time, hence non-electric. Considering PTO mechanical also.

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Eric and Peggy Andersen
1996 2500 4x4 4. 10lsd 5spd, running boards, slidein liner, side tool box, modified rear drop bumper w/ custom receiver, 10 cd changer. Front Prozap on order, new 285/75 16 and new rims soon!

 

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ZEEEW,
You are correct on the white motor. As far as the PTO/Pump goes, I believe all you have to do is select the pump for the rated flow/pressure that you need. I spoke with Milemarker and they said no problem with the PTO setup. I was concerned about continuous use too. I almost bought the Warn 9000 like Busyman in the above post but I didn't like the idea of hard winching and wait 10 or 15 minutes for a cooldown and winch some more.
I spent over an hour winching myself out the other night. Glad I didn't get the Warn now.
the hydraulic winch performed pretty well. I had to throttle up a little on the really hard pulls. One thing that I found that limited me was the 12' remote. The remote is part of the package with the milemarker. As a matter of fact, you get it all except the mount. Not the case with the electrics. A wireless remote is the hot ticket, especially if you are by yourself like I was. Hope that answewed your questions...

Aloha, Jim


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Y2K, 2500, SLT, QC, 4X4, Medium Bronze,Trailer tow pkg, Milemarker Hydraulic winch w/Warn Transformer mount & brush guard, Highway Products 5th wheel toolbox, Con Truck rack, Genuine Steel tube steps,
Spray-in bed liner, 2mtr ham rig (HF & Screwdriver antenna soon), Ham Radio Call WH6FG

 

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Pilgram,

How did the power steering pump seem to do for a good lengthy pull session with a fair amount of weight? Did the pump or motor seem to get hot, or did it do ok?
How did it steer on the way home?

 

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For you winchers that are running off the power steering pump - Have you thought of putting a big transmission cooler on the return line to add some fluid and help keep it cool?

I'm looking into the Ramsey 8000# RPH winch Ramsey Industrial and will have a pump ran off the PTO and about a 5 gallon reservoir with some kind of fluid cooler. Any thoughts on the subject? Advise on pump brand? line size? cooler type as in air or water?

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99 2500, QC, SLT, 4x4 ISB, 5sp, 3. 55lsd, Infiniti am/fm/cd, HDTcase, Tow mirrors, Tow Pack, Camper pack, NW Running Boards and Mud flaps, Front Mount Receiver, Tekonsha Brake Control and Husky Liners, 10,800 miles or 26,200 mile tell BOMB.

 

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ZEEEW,
The steering worked great during the winching and felt the sameas it normally did. On the really hard part of the pull I had to rev the engine up a little above the normal idle. Once it got moving the idel worked fine. I touched the hydraulic motor a couple of times during the pull and it was warm to the touch but not what I'd call hot. If it had been really cold it would have made a nice hand warmer.

BV,
According to my 2000 factory manual the power steering system is supposed to have a cooler if you ordered the trailer tow package but I think it was a mis-print. The writer was having flashbacks of the auto transmission or something. . ???? but a cooler isn't a bad idea. Don't want the oil to get overheated. I have been considering Redline synthetic power steering fluid for extra protection. Anybody using that?

Aloha . . Jim

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Y2K, 2500, SLT, QC, 4X4, Medium Bronze,Trailer tow pkg, Milemarker Hydraulic winch w/Warn Transformer mount & brush guard, Highway Products 5th wheel toolbox, Con Truck rack, Genuine Steel tube steps,
Spray-in bed liner, 2mtr ham rig (HF & Screwdriver antenna soon), Ham Radio Call WH6FG

 

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howdy, from a winchless guy ---when I was a little kid, winches paid for my groceries and clothes... Dad worked at the Braden winch plant in Broken Arrow, and also as plant mgr at the Okmulgee location(both in Okla)... I built a nice double rec'r for my previous truck that met his "ok" (he also did QA) but never bought a winch to use in it... The hydraulics are nice, he told me, except when you can't keep the fluid cool enough, but the big advertisement that MM uses as their anti-electric comparison is motor burnout... this occurs when the motor can't get sufficient voltage to generate enough internal impedance to keep the amps controlled. the rotations slow down, impedance drops off, amp-flow goes up, and before you know it, something expensive hits a critical temp and goes up in smoke... . the test-stand that they (Braden) used for their sacrifices to the gear-gods was equipped with humongous 12-v batts and 6/0 welder cable to feed the motor. too-weak batts will get a nasty volt drop, and the last amps in the battery will flood thru during low-rpm episodes... too-small conductors will have the same effect on the motor, while they get hot ( all these nasty scenarios are on hard prolonged pulls)--- the test stand, by the way, was about a 50-or 100-foot tower, looking like an oil derrick, upon which a winch would be subjected to a vertical lift/hold (to grade brakes) exercise repeatedly and overloaded. If a winch engineer said "10000lb" they would load up, (i'd have to verify w/ Dad) 30K and lift/hold/drop full-length pulls until the winch failed, or until the QA guy got tired of the attempted winchicide. for you guys in the Tulsa area, the plant at Lynn Lane and Houston in BA should recognize the nice Christmas star that they always had lit up on top of the test tower. Properly flowed, hydraulic is good. properly powered, so is electric. He is partial to the electrics, and, as a another bit of trivia, Braden was (may still be) the contract Manufacturer for the venerable 1200-series Warn electric...

his recipe for oil-driven success---fluid sump for high volume availability, and cooling. High pressure (included w/MM winch, I think) hoses and fittings. replacement, if possible with a real hydraulic pump... . Here's where I have a Cummins question... is our PS pump belt-driven, like on so many "common" vehicles, or is it geardriven and actually a piece of the engine???-----final choice is up to the individual, but I felt I had to pass on the "hearsay" that I had at my disposal to the ones who want to be more or less confused with their choice---happy clattering--rm

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98 12-valve qc2500 4x4/kill-switch, K&N,silencer ring hanging in garage,600amp quick-connect jumper cables, 4"straight-thru w/nasty 5" chrome slant-cut outlet,PrimeLoc,Warn Front receiver,100Watt Rally Eclipse offroad(uh-huh) lights, 19. 5"Ricksons w/Goodyear Unisteel "UPS Truck" tires, camper shell, Westin step-rail/nerf bars, diamond-plate rail caps, bedliner,ATF dipstick bungee(modified porky system),Tazmanian Devil mudflaps and floormats--"%$*#)%$^#"-(translation:"TAZ LIKE DIESEL")

 

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Rich,
Not sure about your 98 1/2 but my 2000 PS pump is direct coupled to the vacuum pump which is gear driven off the engine. I just found and interesting site that those frequenting this thread might want to take a look at. I have an email into them for prices. Check it out... Aloha. . Jim
http://www.deweze.com/products/hyd.html

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Y2K, 2500, SLT, QC, 4X4, Medium Bronze,Trailer tow pkg, Milemarker Hydraulic winch w/Warn Transformer mount & brush guard, Highway Products 5th wheel toolbox, Con Truck rack, Genuine Steel tube steps,
Spray-in bed liner, 2mtr ham rig (HF & Screwdriver antenna soon), Ham Radio Call WH6FG