Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) I need Timing Gurus help!!!

[patrobertson]

I am not going to name names, I have already done that, but I need to know if this guy is trying to blow smoke up my butt. I bought my dad's 96 in december last year because the KDP got him. At the shop we had do the repair we also had them set the timing up. Truck is 96 5spd, 215's non cal, with 11 plate. We asked that the timing be set at 16 degrees, but they said 17 was better, we said they know better we'll trust him. Since returing to Utah I have had to replace the head gasket in April / May. Upon completion I wanted to have the timing checked since I thought that 17 might be too high and did not want to have to pull the head again. I had Ken Jones in Ogden set my timng at 15. 5 or so actuall 5. 48mm when he meausred it it was at 8mm roughly equaling 28 degrees before he reset it. I just called the shop in California where I had the work done just to advise them that there timing methods may be scured, seeing that they were 11 degrees off from there goal. And was told that they use a crank sensor and a timing light to time these motors and that by finding TDC with the timing pin (located below pump) is not very acurate and that there are variations on these motors, even from Cummins. He said they like to use these methods and that he did not understand how Ken Jones could find or measure my timing with these methods.



I don't believe it, everyone here says that it goes by mm of lift and that translates into degrees, how do you use a light? Is it even possible. He told me that it is possible for them to get the timing messed up, but 11 degrees!!!!! I am not seeking retaliation just wanting to me more informed. Sorry for it being so long, but you guys are great, thanks.



Shane Robertson Layton Utah.

 

[T. Baker]

A light would only work if you had a really accurate degree wheel on the crank somwhere. Ther isn't one on the Cummins. Maybee they tried to make one? That would not be easy to do right.

 

[JIM S.]

run away....

I would not let this guy touch my truck!!!!!! timeing light on a CTD??? I dont think so!

Jim

 

[illflem]

I've heard of people using lights but just let it pass though my head. If I'm not mistaken the light is just used to find TDC, then they go by mm of lift. It might work but I'd just as soon use the method that Cummins uses and recommends - the timing pin.

 

[JohnE]

timing light is no joke

The local diesel performance shop uses an electronic diesel timing unit. It has a hand held strobe unit and a pickup units that clips on the #1 injector line at the pump. They find TDC and dial it in to the unit. About 5 seconds of run time and the unit gives your timing read out.

The same shop prefers to use the valve drop method for locating TDC. They found the timing pin can be off a few degrees.



I would like to compare the electronic box measurement to the plunger lift measurement.



-John

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The pin can be off, but I don't believe it would ever be off that much on a stock truck. They probably used lift specs for another pump. Yes you can use an inductive pickup, and if done right will be accurate. Ken Jones has set timing before and so you can believe him

 

[T. Baker]

John and Joe,

what do they shine the timing light on? There are no marks anywhere that I know of. There isn't even a pointer. If you mark it yourself it would be hard to get it accurate. You need to know where the crank is when injection starts. So how is it done?

 

[patrobertson]

The guy told me that they put a crank sensor on and mark the crank itself. Now I don't know if the mark they put on has got something in it that the sensor reads or what. Needless to say I don't suggest going there. 11 degrees of timing is way too off for me, especially when I think it cost me a headgasket. Replacing it was alright, kinda fun but I missed my truck when it was down, but I got to make the engine look pretty again. Nothing like a clean engine, but than I through away my back valve cover gaskets and have the grey ones which is another can of worms



Shane

 

[Jeff H]

You could check to see if your timing pin accurate by pulling # 1 injector. Install a dial indicator. Crank engine till the idicator hits top dead center. Now try to push in the pin. You will know if its off if the pin does not slide in.

As far as timing light goes. Even if your timing needs adjusting you still have go through the steps to adjust it. All its gonna do for you is add more labor hours.