I think the throw out bearing is bad, how can I tell?

[zzman]

I started hearing a noise that sounds like an engine rod knocking.

The noise seems to be tied to the clutch operation. From under the truck, it seems to be coming from bell housing. When the clutch pedal is released in neutral, it begins. When driving in any gear the sound is not noticeable until you coast in gear. It appears to match the engine speed.

I have never heard a bad throw out bearing so I'm thinking this is it.

The sound is loudest when coasting in gear.

I did have a problem last week when it got stuck in 3rd gear. I had to really force it out hard to get to neutral. I thought the reason that happened was I shifted pretty fast around a corner from 5th to 3rd. I have no idea if that would have cause that, but that is what I did when it got stuck.

Can anyone school me on a bad throw out bearing or what the noise might be? I do know it is not a piston rod, and it reacts to the clutch operation.

Thanks,

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Sounds more like failed springs in the dual-mass flywheel...

 

[zzman]

How bad is that? How much longer you think it will last?

This is all over my head, but I have 2 loads to deliver and need it for the next 2 days. You think it will last a couple more days?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

How bad is that? How much longer you think it will last?

This is all over my head, but I have 2 loads to deliver and need it for the next 2 days. You think it will last a couple more days?

You'll really need more and better info from guys who have worked directly with the 3rd generation dual-mass setup - but if I'm correct, the noise and knocking are a nuisance, and DO require attention - but short-term runs may not be overly harmful - but I'm way out on a limb here...



GUYS?

 

[cerberusiam]

Sounds more like failed springs in the dual-mass flywheel...

DMF did not start until the G56 trans was standard and I think that was 05. This one should be an NV5600.



If you got it stuck in gear you might have messed up the synchros and/or a main shaft gear. Thes eunits really don't like speed shifting and a lot of hard shifting.



I would call SouthBend clutch or Blumenthals and give the info on what your hearing and happened.



Or wait a bit until one of the NV experts weigh in. The only thing I know is that trans is sensitve to treatment and EXPENSIVE to fix.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

DMF did not start until the G56 trans was standard and I think that was 05. This one should be an NV5600.

AH - thanks!



Then my next guess would be similar - shot springs in the clutch disc hub - I just can't see a "knocking" sort of noise coming from the bellhousing area being caused by a throwout bearing - but the fact it happened after hard shifting adds confusion, unless that caused the disc spring failure...



Other than that, is loose/busted clutch cover bolts...

 

[GCroyle]

zzman,



This is a bit challenging, maybe this will help.



Bearing Load vs. Pedal Position.

The load on the bearing is maybe 20 lbs with your foot off of the pedal. When you feel the peak release load about 2-3 inches into pedal release stroke, the load is ~500 lbs or so, when you hold it released, pedal on floor, the load is 250-300 lbs. You can see this in the graph on page 41 issue 63 lower right graph, top graph line shows release load at the bearing vs. bearing travel. The bearing is always turning, no free play.



If you broke a damper spring and it escaped from the damper you should have noise during shifting and difficult if not impossible shifting into any gear as the spring is now shrapnel between two rotating objects and will try to keep the disc turning.



The release bearing really does not know what gear you are in, it's all the same to it.



Any noise that is GEAR specific, gulp.



We worked on a 1999 Ford 7. 3L a while back that had a chipped tooth, noise and vibration in the stick as I remember it, gear specific.



Good luck.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Good info from Gary Croyle - don't let him get away! :-laf:-laf



A final guess from me - possibly a failed pilot bearing - allowing misalignment of the transmission input shaft and poor shifting, plus the excessive clearance between the input shaft and pilot bearing hole in the crankshaft causes the knocking noise...



All out of theories - but it seems inevitable that the transmission will have to be pulled, regardless - Sorry, been there, done that...

 

[zzman]

UPDATE: The noise is real bad now. You can feel it in the shifter too.

It stops or there is no noise in 5th gear at all. I thought it may be the transmission now so I stopped at the local dodge dealer (Randall Noe). He feels there is a broken tooth on one of the gears. I asked which one it could be since 5th gear has no noise at all and it does it while sitting still in neutral on while driving in any other gear. He didn't want to commit to a specific answer. It seems it may be an idler gear). He had called for parts pricing and for a re-man transmission. The re-man was estimated at close to $6,000 installed.

Well I told him that was it for me. I can't get 6k and they don't do payments. I called other folks around here and most didn't want to touch it or didn't seem to know much about it. Then I called "Standard" in Fort Worth TX (seen in the mag). $3250. 00 plus core. They only work on transmissions not vehicles. The dealer wants 850 bucks to exchange the transmissions.

Well I think they are right about it being a transmission issue. I'm just not in the position to replace or even repair the transmission. So unless there are coupons or a drawing for a transmission, I guess I'll have to sell my trailer to fix my truck, either way I'm out of work.

Anyone know where any sample trannies are.

Thanks guys

 

[DE Jeeper]

Try calling some of your local auto junk yards. You may find a low milage transmission or they may be able to bring one in for much less $$$$. Also, my shop only charged me $450 to put in a dd clutch and that is more work then just swapping a transmission. Shop around a little I am sure you can save some money.



Aaron

 

[HBarlow]

Your signature says you live in or near Terrell, TX. One of the best NVG-5600 shops in the nation is at Fort Worth, TX. Standard Transmission and Gear, a TDR advertiser. They do excellent work for fair prices with honesty. Can't ask for much more in my opinion. They rebuilt the NVG-5600 in my 2001 Dodge Ram. They did the removal, rebuild, and reinstall labor with a complete new clutch assmbly for about $2100 in early 2006. If your truck is still driveable I'd call or, better yet, take it to Standard and ask them for an opinion.

I guarantee you they will treat you honestly and fairly. When they do transmission rebuilds they only charge for replacing the actual worn or damaged parts. It's not a one-size-fits-all overhaul.

Standard disclaimer.

On edit: Sorry, I overlooked your comment about already calling Standard Transmission. They may not have the capability to do the remove and reinstall labor now. They had a small local shop that did the R&R for them when I had mine done and they collected from me and paid him. If it was mine and I could get the money together some way I'd have a local shop near you pull the transmission, load it in a truck and take it to Standard for the rebuild. They are far more experienced than any dealer and cheaper as well.

 

[zzman]

Thats exactly what I think I'll do Harvey, I feel better trusting someone TDR and co. trust.

Thanks

 

[HBarlow]

Good luck. Tell them you are a TDR member and, I assume, trying to earn a living with your truck. I'm confident they'll treat you right.

 

[JHardwick]

Sounds more like failed springs in the dual-mass flywheel...

Exactly!

My g/f is buying her 1st Cummins tomorrow and I insisted on a 03-04 6 spd Oo.

EDIT:nvm, but that;s why i steered her away from a G56, I should have read before posting.

 

[HBarlow]

Thats exactly what I think I'll do Harvey, I feel better trusting someone TDR and co. trust.
Thanks

Ron,

I forgot to mention this: I assume you know the NVG-5600 is a very heavy transmission and requires someone with knowledge and tools to safely remove and reinstall it. I've forgotten but I think it weighs 300-400 pounds.

I glazed the clutch plate and flywheel surface and got a clutch chatter at around 100k miles on my old '01 Dodge by backing a trailer. I watched as the mechanic who was a friend of Joe Donnelly did the job. He used a hydraulic ram to spread the frame rails enough to drop the cross member under the transmission.

It is not a job for amateurs in a garage like we used to do it when I was a kid 50 years ago. A NVG-5600 can kill someone if it rolls off a jack.

 

[GCroyle]

Good Luck

zzman,



HBarlow is right, these are heavy, that's the biggest issue doing the job safely.



I don't know if the 04. 5 has the old X-member or the newer X-member. The old wedge type style was a tight fit, the newer one like my 05 is easy, 4 bolts total that go through frame cradles. FWIW, we have never used a pota power or press of any kind to get the older X-Member out. We would clear it, tap it up against the bottom of the cab, then start side to side tapping to work it out the rear, key is keep it up as high as possible and use a bit of patience.



If you want to drain the fluid and try further at home diagnostics, you might want to pull one of the PTO covers off and look for debris. If you find a chunk of something, ouch. Magnetic shavings seem common, not chunks.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I fabricated a wooden adapter/cradle that conformed to the bottom of the transmission, and secured that to a 1500 lb. capacity motorcycle hoist I had - then used webbing straps to hold the transmission securely to the cradle - worked like a charm - also need some form of jack or lift to support rear of engine after transmission is out - it also helps to be able to raise/lower rear of engine slightly as needed for best alignment of transmission-to-engine as it's reinstalled...



Took me the better part of a day to remove my transmission, install new clutch setup, and reinstall...



And I'm an OLD coot... :-laf:-laf

 

[GCroyle]

Yeah, but you're a tough observant old coot, that makes all the difference.



Gary, Is it time to wet a line and cook a stream lunch yet?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Yeah, but you're a tough observant old coot, that makes all the difference.



Gary, Is it time to wet a line and cook a stream lunch yet?

It's slowly getting that way - I bought a new 9. 8 HP Nissan (same as Mercury) outboard late last season, only got about 3 hours on it, and need 7 or so more hours for full breakin - so, naturally, I'm really chomping at the bit to catch a few more like these:



#ad




That's my brother in law above



#ad




A combined afternoon's catch



Below, another afternoon catch - that's my dearly beloved sister in law seen - the best "fisherlady" in the camp!



#ad

 

[GCroyle]

I'm hungry and jealous of the camping, 'cept mine would be tent camping. I know somebody has to be crazy. We even have slept out in the back yard, firepit and morning coffee, not bad.



Hope zzman gets lucky with his truck.