Idle Clatter - Dodge Auto transmission stronger than Manual?

[FATCAT]

In the latest edition of the TDR magazine, in the Idle Clatter section (pg. 72 right hand column) it states:

"If you study the 2006 truck specs, you'll also find that the truck is rated to tow more weight when equipped with an automatic transmission than it is when equipped with a G56, manual six speed transmission. You can tow up to 3,000 pounds more gross combined weight with a properly equipped truck. " :-{}



What!! I went to the www-5. dodge.com site to check this out and the automatic on the regular cab and quad cab 4X2 or 4X4 was rated to tow only between 50 to 100 lbs more than the 6-speed (probably due to the weight of the manual being heavier).



What gives? Did Dodge put a "car" manual transmission in the new truck? If so they had better fix that. Manual trannys have always been stronger for towing than automatics when match to the truck properly ... not puting commuter car manuals in trucks.



If the artical is true and the website if false then Dodge had better start putting in the G80 or whatever is their HD transmission in these trucks ... unless Dodge is trying to phase out manual transmissions alltogether!

 

[COBRAJET]

The Big Three seem to like the auto's for towing now. The TOW BOSS package on the Ford is only available with a 4. 30 geared auto. It use to be the stick was the way to go for towing... but most of the auto's match the rowers in useful gears now and have all the tow button features. All of them have a taller OD ratio in them as well for equal or better mileage when flatlanding. Dodge took a lot of grief with the old 5 speed self destructing on a regular basis and Ford's two piece assembly was a big money pit as well... over 1K for the stinking flywheel. Aftermarket fixed that fiasco. I can count the number of DMAX trucks with sticks I have seen in five years on one hand..... we all know the Allison is indestructible... . HA! For all the grief the auto's use to get the sticks were not much better.

 

[Nate]

Do they even make Duramax trucks with standard transmissions? I've never seen/heard of one... though I'm not a Chevy guy.

 

[mberry]

That's because the auto transmisison weighs so much less than the manual trans. that it boosts the tow rating.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Funny thing about my NV-5600...



There's a proper gear for ANY load or grade I've come across so far.



I can put it in the gear of my choice, and LEAVE it there as long as *I* want, not some fool computer, designed by a nerd who never towed a load up a hill, or use the transmission for braking coming DOWN a hill.



My 5600 will quite likely last as long as I own the truck - and I won't be doing an odometer countdown to the 125K mile mark, where the automatics are estimated to need a rebuild.



I might have to (and DID!) beef up my clutch to handle my power mods at a cost of about $500 - but I *WON'T* be putting several THOUSAND dollars into a transmission upgrade to handle the power.



Automatics? Been there, done that, and burned the T-shirt!



Went to a manual for our RV towing activities, with NO regrets!

 

[MMeier]

... we all know the Allison is indestructible... . HA!

Really now? Enlighten us !!

 

[Bob V]

The article is wrong. To get the max tow rating in 2005 you had to have a 3500 with 410 gears. The 410 gears are not available with G56 and the tow rating for late 05 where not updated to show that the G56 W/373s had the same rating as the 5600 W/ 410s. This was confirmed with a call to DC. The 06 buyers guide shows the same max GCVW with the G56 W/ 373s as the auto W/ 410. It should be noted that the auto (and the NV5600) MUST have the 410s to get the max GCVW which is 23,000 for a 3500 SRW or DRW. The 2500 all have the same GCVW of 20,000. All this info is in the Dodge buyers guide.

http://www.dodge.com/bodybuilder/

 

[steved]

Really now? Enlighten us !!

I think he was being very sacastic...



steved

 

[steved]

Funny thing about my NV-5600...



There's a proper gear for ANY load or grade I've come across so far.



I can put it in the gear of my choice, and LEAVE it there as long as *I* want, not some fool computer, designed by a nerd who never towed a load up a hill, or use the transmission for braking coming DOWN a hill.



My 5600 will quite likely last as long as I own the truck - and I won't be doing an odometer countdown to the 125K mile mark, where the automatics are estimated to need a rebuild.



I might have to (and DID!) beef up my clutch to handle my power mods at a cost of about $500 - but I *WON'T* be putting several THOUSAND dollars into a transmission upgrade to handle the power.



Automatics? Been there, done that, and burned the T-shirt!



Went to a manual for our RV towing activities, with NO regrets!

Agreed... after eating several trannies in the last truck with almost no towing, I went NV5600 in this one for the same reasons as Gary...



This was mainly because after replacing the autos, I was never comfortable/confident that it wouldn't leave me sitting somewhere... not that it ever did, but...



steved

 

[DPelletier]

Agreed... after eating several trannies in the last truck with almost no towing, I went NV5600 in this one for the same reasons as Gary...



This was mainly because after replacing the autos, I was never comfortable/confident that it wouldn't leave me sitting somewhere... not that it ever did, but...



steved

Ditto.



The tow rating issue is bogus. GCWR is the same for manuals or automatics. Yes the manual transmission weighs more and you need to deduct that weight from your GCWR just like any option such as power windows, bedliners, sunroofs, etc. etc. The thing you should be thinking about is WHY the manual transmission weighs more.



All my trucks (seven at this time) are manuals and I've never had a single transmission failure on any of the manual trannies in the several million miles I've been running them. The NV5600 is stronger and will last longer on average than any automatic transmission ever built. If they keep improving the automatics and keep messing up the manuals (sorry, I don't care for the DMF in my G56), then maybe I'll get an auto at some point but right now I'm convinced that the manual is far more economical in the long run.



Cheers,

Dave

 

[JoshPeters]

One of the reasons that Automatics are lighter is Planetary Gearsets. They are actually stronger (of comperable size) than Straight or Hellical cut gear to gear applications. To get the same strength out of a manual you must make it bigger, which is more weight.



What I'd like to see is a transmission along the lines of a Lenco, but more user friendly. Something that you can "row" the gears up and down without issue. Lighter weight, stronger... . man we could have the best of all worlds!



DD

 

[SEwing]

One of the reasons that Automatics are lighter is Planetary Gearsets. They are actually stronger (of comperable size) than Straight or Hellical cut gear to gear applications. To get the same strength out of a manual you must make it bigger, which is more weight.





DD

Please correct me if I am wrong but I believe that the reason that the planetary gears are lighter, i. e. the autos, is that you can get the same reduction ratio with a physically smaller gearset. A helical type gear type gear can transmit more power and in a smoother fashion than a typical planetary gear. The weak point in most planetary gearsets is the ring gear, the outside ring that supports the planets.



It also depends on what the gears are made of and if the planetary gears are using helical or straight tooth gears, this also applies to the standard gears.

 

[steved]

The weak point in most planetary gearsets is the ring gear, the outside ring that supports the planets.

Every planetary set I have had in my hands has failed because of excess wear of the shafts that support each of the planetaries (the three or five smaller gears inside the outer ring). This applies a extreme load to the supporting shaft if they wear unevenly... and eventually things quit working if the shafts wear far enough and allow the smaller gears to "pull" away from the outer ring... I've seen this first hand...



And then sometimes the outer ring will crack if the supporting housing is weak...



Now keep in mind, this is all equipment I'm basing this off, not a dodge auto... although the planetary assemblies taken out of my 1500 (46RE) and the 47RE (the one I actually paid for in the 2500) were really bad... but that isn't what failed.



steved

 

[COBRAJET]

Dmax's are available with 6 speed sticks and the Allison remark was 100% sarcasm... I know of several which took a dump on stock trucks pulling big trailers.

 

[Bob V]

Dmax's are available with 6 speed sticks and the Allison remark was 100% sarcasm... I know of several which took a dump on stock trucks pulling big trailers.

But the Dmaxs with sticks have less HP from the factory. IMHO the reason some of the auto have higher HP or tow ratings is that the computer can control the shift points AND the fueling at the shift points, softens the load on the drive train.

 

[klenger]

... Or the clutch is a pos.

 

[steved]

But the Dmaxs with sticks have less HP from the factory. IMHO the reason some of the auto have higher HP or tow ratings is that the computer can control the shift points AND the fueling at the shift points, softens the load on the drive train.

This is the route the "box" people have taken... dropping HP levels back to "normal" during a shift to lessen the effects on the auto...



I too have heard that they have issues with the DMax clutch... that was a while ago and a DMax guy who told me that...



steved

 

[Signal73]

I would like to say Im very impressed with the auto in my 06. Im not much of an auto guy but this trans stock shifts and drives like some bombed ones Ive driven. Firm crisp shifts, ability to stay in lockup down to 1100rpms in tow/haul.

MUCH better then the torqshift I had in my 04 6L I cant comment on the allison havent driven one.

 

[Buffalo]

Steved,



The issues with the DMax clutch are, probably, related to the fact that it has a dual-mass flywheel.



What I heard regarding some auto's having a greater towing capacity is that, some of the manufacturers have little confidence in the ability of their customers knowing how to properly shift a manual trans.



Joe F. (Buffalo)

 

[JasonBrown]

I believe it comes down to the manufacturers think the computer can make better shifting decisions then you can, limiting stress on the system.



In my situation, I am too lazy to drive a manual.