Amsoil's Food Grade Grease works well in these aplic... ... ... . wait a minute... ... ... . did I say that out loud... ... ... ..... ???????????
Oo. :{
Oo. :{
-
TDR Magazine subscribers receive more than the magazine! You also gain additional forum privileges!
Details here: TDR Privileges
Subscribe to TDR Magazine here: https://www.tdr-online.com/
If You Don"t Like Oil Threads.....
- Thread starter LSMITH
- Start Date
Attention: TDR Forum Junkies To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.
Thanks, TDR Staff
- Status
OH NO!
This one started off "warm & fuzzy"... . didn't take long to heat up! Information is what the site is all about and when it steers clear of that people get frustrated. On injectors, clutches and such these, and many other items give immediate "real time" results and effect. Oils and the like are more or less heresay unless PROVEN otherwise.
Find that Cummins with 1/2 million miles on it with the "oil of concern' being its sole diet and you will have something worth mentioning. The game has been to side step certain questions and "hammer" on others. This is sales in action like the guy that threw dirt on Moms rug years ago.
Mike (always '956Wheel)
This one started off "warm & fuzzy"... . didn't take long to heat up! Information is what the site is all about and when it steers clear of that people get frustrated. On injectors, clutches and such these, and many other items give immediate "real time" results and effect. Oils and the like are more or less heresay unless PROVEN otherwise.
Find that Cummins with 1/2 million miles on it with the "oil of concern' being its sole diet and you will have something worth mentioning. The game has been to side step certain questions and "hammer" on others. This is sales in action like the guy that threw dirt on Moms rug years ago.
Mike (always '956Wheel)
Some of you may know this, however those who don't may be interested in hearing that DonM has lost his posting privelages over this very subject. It's a shame that this product couldn't be debated in a civil manner. I'm not trying to point the finger at anyone and personally feel that some of the threads contained some very good technical information. I just hate seeing a friend (and good person) lose his posting privelages over such a subject. New members join this site to find technical information such as this. Some prefer to hear the pros AND cons while others only want to hear the pros OR cons. If I were a new member and was trying to decide on the absolute best oil for my truck, I would be glued to these threads. I don't want to stir the pot any more than it already has, however wanted to let some of you know of Don's situation.
-Cord Reynolds
-Cord Reynolds
I was going to PM this to the moderators, but I think I'll just post it here.
I CAN'T BELEIVE WHAT I JUST READ!!!! (Yes I'm shouting) Did you ban Don from posting? Your problem is with snake oil salesmen that won't answer honest questions, and get their jabs in whenever they get a chance. All you have to do is look at this thread! Your real problem lies with MGM or is it Sled Puller and to a smaller extent Briar Hopper. I like reading their other posts, they can be very informative, but when it comes to Amsoil...
I suggest you re-think your actions, they are unjust.
That is what I was ready to send, but I think everyone needs to see a different point of view.
Go ahead and flame away, I'm a man and can take it.
Gene
I CAN'T BELEIVE WHAT I JUST READ!!!! (Yes I'm shouting) Did you ban Don from posting? Your problem is with snake oil salesmen that won't answer honest questions, and get their jabs in whenever they get a chance. All you have to do is look at this thread! Your real problem lies with MGM or is it Sled Puller and to a smaller extent Briar Hopper. I like reading their other posts, they can be very informative, but when it comes to Amsoil...
I suggest you re-think your actions, they are unjust.
That is what I was ready to send, but I think everyone needs to see a different point of view.
Go ahead and flame away, I'm a man and can take it.
Gene
Open Letter To Steve St. Laurent:
Steve, did you revoke Don M. 's privleges?
Why did Don M. lose his posting privleges?
Is he permanently banned from the TDR site?
Can you explain what he posted that was objectionable?
Exactly which rules did Don break?
Why didn't others which fought with Don lose their privleges?
Will I now lose my privleges for standing up for Don M?
Will someone lose their posting privleges if they bash a TDR advertiser?
Steve, if you're man enough to kick Don M. off the site, I think you should be man enough to come back in here and answer people's questions.
If you are not the person responsible for booting Don off the site, perhaps you could ask that person to answer the above questions.
R. Rausch
Steve, did you revoke Don M. 's privleges?
Why did Don M. lose his posting privleges?
Is he permanently banned from the TDR site?
Can you explain what he posted that was objectionable?
Exactly which rules did Don break?
Why didn't others which fought with Don lose their privleges?
Will I now lose my privleges for standing up for Don M?
Will someone lose their posting privleges if they bash a TDR advertiser?
Steve, if you're man enough to kick Don M. off the site, I think you should be man enough to come back in here and answer people's questions.
If you are not the person responsible for booting Don off the site, perhaps you could ask that person to answer the above questions.
R. Rausch
Last edited:
First, I will say, it was not my action to suspend Don M's posting. I have no such authority. I will say, however, that as much as I dislike the idea, I'd offer the argument there was little else to do. I did not make a request, but my opinion was asked on the matter, and I gave it.
As moderators, we are given the task of keeping the fora from degenerating into factionalized, warring schisms. Unfortunately, it is not within the power of any of us forsee the outcome of any thread, nor know with any certainty the responses things will generate. However, over time, certain patterns emerge. Certain people become obsessed with certain topics, or against certain others, or go on a "mission" to save the world from X, Y, or Z.
Many of the topics in the Products / Accessories become very technical in nature. People who have some authority in thier own right disagree on some point, and at that point, members of the audience tend to take sides and begin sniping at the other. Over the c ourse of the last 3 months, I have gotten a number of requests to intervene in technical arguments. I'd like to think of myself as well-informed, or very smart, or even always right. But I know without a doubt that I absolutely do NOT know it all. I simply cannot pick a side, based upon deciding that one side of a technical dispute is right and the other wrong, lying, etc.
At this point, the moderators are sometimes faced with a dilemma that even Solomon would probably struggle to solve. Pressure to close thread after thread, demands to keep it open, and of course, pressure from both sides to enforce the "right" type of argument. At this point, we, as moderators, are pretty much forced to fall back from the technical validity of the conversation, and enforce the rules based upon our judgement of the poster's attitude, and whether he or she continues to add fuel to the fire and is stirring up a bigger fight, or if the debate stays within the boundaries defined by the guidelines.
Many times, I have done nothing when the guidelines are minorly violated, because it appeared to me that things would either go back to being informative or useful, or that interest was dying and things would be ok after all. Sometimes I was right, sometimes wrong. Sometimes what I passed over someone else shut down, sometimes I asked others to pass judgement, since I had been involved in the debate myself.
So where does this leave us? Well, without taking sides in the argument, requests were made by me and by others for self-restraint. It didn't happen. So now, we are in a NO WIN situation. We're damned by some if we do nothing, damned by some if we do anything. Damned by others if we don't take some side, damned by ohters for not taking thiers.
In my view (and again, I repeat, I made no request, it was not my doing) it was time to act, and actions were carried out that in the view of those given the task, would do the most to accomplish the task of moderating. In my view, there must be no other option before I ask someone to be removed. Sometimes, the person themself prompts that action. What was done was done by the best judgement we could make. For that, apologies generally would be insincere. Love it or hate it, or have no opinion, there's really not much now that's going to change things. The number of total removals from this site have been extremely few, only a handful, and we're pretty willing to give people another chance. Let's let things die down so there's a chance to try again, ok?
Thank you for reading, and I hope you understand...
Mark
As moderators, we are given the task of keeping the fora from degenerating into factionalized, warring schisms. Unfortunately, it is not within the power of any of us forsee the outcome of any thread, nor know with any certainty the responses things will generate. However, over time, certain patterns emerge. Certain people become obsessed with certain topics, or against certain others, or go on a "mission" to save the world from X, Y, or Z.
Many of the topics in the Products / Accessories become very technical in nature. People who have some authority in thier own right disagree on some point, and at that point, members of the audience tend to take sides and begin sniping at the other. Over the c ourse of the last 3 months, I have gotten a number of requests to intervene in technical arguments. I'd like to think of myself as well-informed, or very smart, or even always right. But I know without a doubt that I absolutely do NOT know it all. I simply cannot pick a side, based upon deciding that one side of a technical dispute is right and the other wrong, lying, etc.
At this point, the moderators are sometimes faced with a dilemma that even Solomon would probably struggle to solve. Pressure to close thread after thread, demands to keep it open, and of course, pressure from both sides to enforce the "right" type of argument. At this point, we, as moderators, are pretty much forced to fall back from the technical validity of the conversation, and enforce the rules based upon our judgement of the poster's attitude, and whether he or she continues to add fuel to the fire and is stirring up a bigger fight, or if the debate stays within the boundaries defined by the guidelines.
Many times, I have done nothing when the guidelines are minorly violated, because it appeared to me that things would either go back to being informative or useful, or that interest was dying and things would be ok after all. Sometimes I was right, sometimes wrong. Sometimes what I passed over someone else shut down, sometimes I asked others to pass judgement, since I had been involved in the debate myself.
So where does this leave us? Well, without taking sides in the argument, requests were made by me and by others for self-restraint. It didn't happen. So now, we are in a NO WIN situation. We're damned by some if we do nothing, damned by some if we do anything. Damned by others if we don't take some side, damned by ohters for not taking thiers.
In my view (and again, I repeat, I made no request, it was not my doing) it was time to act, and actions were carried out that in the view of those given the task, would do the most to accomplish the task of moderating. In my view, there must be no other option before I ask someone to be removed. Sometimes, the person themself prompts that action. What was done was done by the best judgement we could make. For that, apologies generally would be insincere. Love it or hate it, or have no opinion, there's really not much now that's going to change things. The number of total removals from this site have been extremely few, only a handful, and we're pretty willing to give people another chance. Let's let things die down so there's a chance to try again, ok?
Thank you for reading, and I hope you understand...
Mark
That, is one of the most intelligent statements I have read on this forum.
In this particular situation, the CON players were POINT blank calling the PRO players, "CONS". As in CON artist, snakeoil salesman, liars, etc.
To the point of being slanderous.
And it simply is not true. All we do is tell people our expriences with the product.
Do you guys remember the fella that had bad luck with a SBC? The TDR membership tore him up, for several pages. Very ugly.
Not only did Don NOT get tore up by the masses, for bashing a good company and people, he was CHEERED on!
Pointing out Cons(in his opinion) and bashing are two very different things.
You people pointing fingers should take a long look at yourselves, and actually start READING threads, instead of just skimming over them.
Yes, I'm guilty of the senseless bantering, but I have trouble avoiding a fight when I'm called the above names, and somebody purposefully badgering me to come in.
Gene
Mark (Power Wagon) thank you for the explanation, it makes the situation the moderators are put in much more clear.
StakeMan, the oil arguement had already jumped into a couple other threads when I posted this thread. I was hoping to keep the oil threads alive so that they could be relatively contained for the willing participants in them, and others could CHOOSE to read them or not. Finding jabs in other threads was bothering me.
My whole point was for the people that have been complaining to the moderators to ignore the oil thread wars, if it bothers them they have no business reading it. Pass over the threads that do not interest you or that bother you, it really is that simple.
Regardless of your point of view on the oil threads there was some good info present from both sides of the arguement.
rrausch, I think calling Steve on the carpet is your right, but I also think it should be done privately. I do not support the decision to remove Don M's posting priveledge, but it is just that, a priveledge. The moderators and TDR staff have all sides that must be catered to in some capacity to keep this site alive and healthy. I would like to see any commentary or questioning in a private manner, and simply ask Steve to post the rational for the decision in a thread. I think that would be sufficient, and would help to keep the emotions at a more reasonable level. I am not saying anyone is right here. I disagree with this decision, but I also know Steve personally and consider him a friend. He is a good man, and did this after seeking the input of many others as a last resort. I have asked Steve about this privately and was answered.
Gene, I do not believe one side in the oil arguements was more right than the other. I disagree with your last post.
Can we get this back on topic, that we need to exercise some personal responsibility? If some more of the membership was excercising some personal responsibility we woould not be having this thread. Complaining to the moderators about a thread that you willingly clicked on and read through is plain dumb IMO, and puts them in a very difficult situation.
IF IT BOTHERS YOU DO NOT READ IT!!! Stay out of it and let it go. I also submit that if you have nothing to add without jabs and emotion stay out of it. WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT AND ABILITY TO OPT OUT OF ANY THREAD AT ANY TIME, REMEMBER THAT!!!!
edit: I should also add that the personal resposibility that I am wanting us to excercise applies to everyone, amsoil salesmen and anti-amsoilers equally also. The degeneration of a thread is nearly impossible when only one person is trying to cause that, responding in kind is just as unreasonable IMO.
StakeMan, the oil arguement had already jumped into a couple other threads when I posted this thread. I was hoping to keep the oil threads alive so that they could be relatively contained for the willing participants in them, and others could CHOOSE to read them or not. Finding jabs in other threads was bothering me.
My whole point was for the people that have been complaining to the moderators to ignore the oil thread wars, if it bothers them they have no business reading it. Pass over the threads that do not interest you or that bother you, it really is that simple.
Regardless of your point of view on the oil threads there was some good info present from both sides of the arguement.
rrausch, I think calling Steve on the carpet is your right, but I also think it should be done privately. I do not support the decision to remove Don M's posting priveledge, but it is just that, a priveledge. The moderators and TDR staff have all sides that must be catered to in some capacity to keep this site alive and healthy. I would like to see any commentary or questioning in a private manner, and simply ask Steve to post the rational for the decision in a thread. I think that would be sufficient, and would help to keep the emotions at a more reasonable level. I am not saying anyone is right here. I disagree with this decision, but I also know Steve personally and consider him a friend. He is a good man, and did this after seeking the input of many others as a last resort. I have asked Steve about this privately and was answered.
Gene, I do not believe one side in the oil arguements was more right than the other. I disagree with your last post.
Can we get this back on topic, that we need to exercise some personal responsibility? If some more of the membership was excercising some personal responsibility we woould not be having this thread. Complaining to the moderators about a thread that you willingly clicked on and read through is plain dumb IMO, and puts them in a very difficult situation.
IF IT BOTHERS YOU DO NOT READ IT!!! Stay out of it and let it go. I also submit that if you have nothing to add without jabs and emotion stay out of it. WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT AND ABILITY TO OPT OUT OF ANY THREAD AT ANY TIME, REMEMBER THAT!!!!
edit: I should also add that the personal resposibility that I am wanting us to excercise applies to everyone, amsoil salesmen and anti-amsoilers equally also. The degeneration of a thread is nearly impossible when only one person is trying to cause that, responding in kind is just as unreasonable IMO.
Last edited:
GSchlegel, I'd much rather be part of a solution than part of a problem. It offends me that you would be so quick to judge me and Sled Puller as being the problem. We were merely defending a good product. In return, I got called a liar, and had many of my words very cleverly twisted and thrown at me. Don M was insulting to me from the very beginning, on other threads, long before the multi-page fiasco thread, "Amsoil and the API". You and several other TDR members have obviously missed those threads where he made several insulting remarks to me. Unfortunately, I returned the favor to him, which made me even more of a target for his words.
Fortunately, you are very much in the minority in your views, as most people reading the entire exchange were observant, and careful enough readers, to perceive Don M's tactics and attitude, in between the oil stuff. I've heard from quite a few. They simply don't care to post their support on here though, they know they'll get attacked.
I don't care to escalate this discussion. I'm sure there will be many more fingers like yours pointed at me over this issue, unjustly so.
You're looking at the wrong people.
Rule # 8 in the forum guidelines. Go read it. "Educate, don't irritate". The "irritation" was removed by the forum moderators.
Fortunately, you are very much in the minority in your views, as most people reading the entire exchange were observant, and careful enough readers, to perceive Don M's tactics and attitude, in between the oil stuff. I've heard from quite a few. They simply don't care to post their support on here though, they know they'll get attacked.
I don't care to escalate this discussion. I'm sure there will be many more fingers like yours pointed at me over this issue, unjustly so.
You're looking at the wrong people.
Rule # 8 in the forum guidelines. Go read it. "Educate, don't irritate". The "irritation" was removed by the forum moderators.
I don't think anyone objects to closing a contentious thread. That act in itself seems to quiet people down a little. That's good. No one wants to go to war here. It was good those threads were closed.
But I do object to Don being kicked off the board for... exactly what again?
Don is a stand-up guy, a guy who can speak his mind. His removal was for not very good reasons, and it makes me angry.
LSmith, I didn't "Call (Steve) on the carpet". I don't have any power here.
Since Steve apparently is the Moderator I asked him several specific questions. To wit:
"... did you revoke Don M. 's privleges?
Why (exactly) did Don M. lose his posting privleges?
Is he permanently banned from the TDR site?
Can you explain what he posted that was objectionable?
Exactly which rules did Don break?
Why didn't others who fought with Don lose their privleges?
Will I now lose my privleges for standing up for Don M?
Will someone lose their posting privleges if they bash a TDR advertiser?"
These are legitimate questions. IF Steve didn't make the decision, I would like answers from the man who did.
You know, during the oil threads, I sided with Don and against (I think) Gene and Sled Puller among others. And I felt so Right and I felt the "other guys" were so Wrong. Ok. Well a day later I was reading the "Perfesser Cheers" thread, and (I think) Gene and Sled Puller came down heavily on the side of good old common-sense American Virtue, and against the gun-control idiocy of Perfesser Cheers! YEAH!!!!!!! And I got over ANY sniggling little feelings of resentment I had had. "Go Sled Puller!! Go Gene!!"
So my point is this! We need to BOND TOGETHER on this site. The TDR site is not just another gear-head, stir-the-pot-site. We are a unique bunch of guys, mostly conservative, with strong personalities and strong opinions, and strong trucks. WE NEED EVERY ONE OF US. (Yes I shouted)
If guys start getting kicked off the board for (apparently) standing up too strongly for what they believe... well it just isn't Right. It stinks. It smacks of intimidation and Totalitarianism.
The action against Don just leaves a bad taste in my guts. But I guess that is what it was designed to do. That's why I asked the above questions.
Maybe we should have a poll.
But I do object to Don being kicked off the board for... exactly what again?
Don is a stand-up guy, a guy who can speak his mind. His removal was for not very good reasons, and it makes me angry.
LSmith, I didn't "Call (Steve) on the carpet". I don't have any power here.
Since Steve apparently is the Moderator I asked him several specific questions. To wit:
"... did you revoke Don M. 's privleges?
Why (exactly) did Don M. lose his posting privleges?
Is he permanently banned from the TDR site?
Can you explain what he posted that was objectionable?
Exactly which rules did Don break?
Why didn't others who fought with Don lose their privleges?
Will I now lose my privleges for standing up for Don M?
Will someone lose their posting privleges if they bash a TDR advertiser?"
These are legitimate questions. IF Steve didn't make the decision, I would like answers from the man who did.
You know, during the oil threads, I sided with Don and against (I think) Gene and Sled Puller among others. And I felt so Right and I felt the "other guys" were so Wrong. Ok. Well a day later I was reading the "Perfesser Cheers" thread, and (I think) Gene and Sled Puller came down heavily on the side of good old common-sense American Virtue, and against the gun-control idiocy of Perfesser Cheers! YEAH!!!!!!! And I got over ANY sniggling little feelings of resentment I had had. "Go Sled Puller!! Go Gene!!"
So my point is this! We need to BOND TOGETHER on this site. The TDR site is not just another gear-head, stir-the-pot-site. We are a unique bunch of guys, mostly conservative, with strong personalities and strong opinions, and strong trucks. WE NEED EVERY ONE OF US. (Yes I shouted)
If guys start getting kicked off the board for (apparently) standing up too strongly for what they believe... well it just isn't Right. It stinks. It smacks of intimidation and Totalitarianism.
The action against Don just leaves a bad taste in my guts. But I guess that is what it was designed to do. That's why I asked the above questions.
Maybe we should have a poll.
Last edited:
Muzzling ANY member, whether we agree with his views, tactics, ethics, or anything else is something we should all take very seriuosly. IMHO if Don's posting privileges were taken away without some sort of formal notice this is wrong. If he was warned once or twice proir to taking this action I have no problem with it.
I, too took part in the "oil wars". This I did because I felt Don was telling users of Amsoil they were stupid for using a non-API certified oil. Telling us DC and Cummins did not approve of our lubricant choice, and that we should heed his wise counsel and go back to conventional maintenance. The users of Amsoil did not start the "oil wars", we simply responded to our product choice/maintenance method being attacked.
If I told a fellow bomber DC and Cummins did not approve of him putting an HX-40 turbo on his truck what kind of response would I get? What anyone else puts on or in their truck is none of my business. This is something that seems to escape some people.
I believe my posts contain nothing but my opinions based on my own personal observations/experiences with my truck. I never endorsed or pushed any product or maintenance method on anyone.
We all agree, as pointed out earlier that we have common ground in Dodge Trucks and Cummins Engines. This, coupled with the fact that this site can be a fantastic resource to all of us should be enough common ground for us to be civil with each other, even when we do not see eye to eye.
I, too took part in the "oil wars". This I did because I felt Don was telling users of Amsoil they were stupid for using a non-API certified oil. Telling us DC and Cummins did not approve of our lubricant choice, and that we should heed his wise counsel and go back to conventional maintenance. The users of Amsoil did not start the "oil wars", we simply responded to our product choice/maintenance method being attacked.
If I told a fellow bomber DC and Cummins did not approve of him putting an HX-40 turbo on his truck what kind of response would I get? What anyone else puts on or in their truck is none of my business. This is something that seems to escape some people.
I believe my posts contain nothing but my opinions based on my own personal observations/experiences with my truck. I never endorsed or pushed any product or maintenance method on anyone.
We all agree, as pointed out earlier that we have common ground in Dodge Trucks and Cummins Engines. This, coupled with the fact that this site can be a fantastic resource to all of us should be enough common ground for us to be civil with each other, even when we do not see eye to eye.
Steve St.Laurent
Staff Alumni
Robert, while you may feel that those are legitimate questions we do not discuss specific actions taken against users in public or with others because it would not be appropriate. You should know that decisions such as temporarily revoking privileges or banning a user and refunding their subscription are never made by one person, it is discussed between the moderators and with the owners of the site and together we figure out how to deal with those situations. I am in the process of contacting the primary people involved in the recent oil threads and appropriate actions are being taken depending on the level of their involvement in the continued bickering. If you wish to know what those actions are then you should contact that person privately and ask them, for they should have the option of giving that information out or not. If you choose to do that, the only thing that I would ask is that you do not then post that information out in public (here on the forums for example) because whatever actions have been taken are between the TDR management staff and the user/users in question. If, after you have that information that you feel that anything that was done by the TDR management or moderators was wrong then you should contact us privately to discuss it. You can email me at -- email address removed -- or Robin Patton at rpatton@ix.netcom.com .
The reason I have not responded to this until now is that a final decision was not made on exactly how this was going to be dealt with until a couple of hours ago. Some temporary actions were taken to cool things down until final decisions were made. I have been working on this issue and writing the appropriate emails to the individuals involved for the last few hours.
Powerwagon's post above is extremely well written (thanks Mark) and gives a good picture of the difficulty of the task we are assigned. Balancing the needs and wants of 10,000 users is extremely difficult and we try to do our best. We have some users that want absolutely no rules and no moderating at all right on up through users that want extremely heavy handed moderating and restrictions. We do try our best to strike a balance between those extremes.
-Steve St. Laurent
Lead Moderator
The reason I have not responded to this until now is that a final decision was not made on exactly how this was going to be dealt with until a couple of hours ago. Some temporary actions were taken to cool things down until final decisions were made. I have been working on this issue and writing the appropriate emails to the individuals involved for the last few hours.
Powerwagon's post above is extremely well written (thanks Mark) and gives a good picture of the difficulty of the task we are assigned. Balancing the needs and wants of 10,000 users is extremely difficult and we try to do our best. We have some users that want absolutely no rules and no moderating at all right on up through users that want extremely heavy handed moderating and restrictions. We do try our best to strike a balance between those extremes.
-Steve St. Laurent
Lead Moderator
Last edited by a moderator:
You wanna know what I think? Warning-this is long and probably rambling....
First off, I think it's pretty poor that Don got booted for his role in the threads from hell... . was he a little too tenacious? Could be-sometimes I wish that I was that way. IMO it's a lot easier to walk away from something then to stick with it-I admire his tenacity. Sad part is I honestly think that Don, Gene, and Tom are a lot alike. Probably if the 3 of you ended up in a room together you'd find a lot of common interests and subjects for discussion... . but then again I could be way out to lunch here.
.
Whether you call it muzzling, censorship, or trying to keep the peace, I'm dead against it..... who was it that said (and I think I'm paraphrasing a little here) "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death"? As long as nobody's threatening bodily harm etc, what's the big deal? We're all grownups here, aren't we? I'm not gonna let my feelings get hurt over a stupid post on an Internet forum.....
As for the folks whining to the moderators, What it boils down to folks is what Howard et al have said above-IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T READ IT!!!!! Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to read the argumentative threads-if they do you've got bigger problems than the Amsoil Wars!
Probably the same types we get out here-who move out from the city and expect the surrounding area to change for them..... not gonna happen. Doesn't matter whether it's an oil or gas processing facility, intensive livestock operation, or what have you, somebody buys an acreage right beside it and the whining begins... ... if it's built after you buy you have a gripe, if not live with it or move back to the 'burbs where you probably belonged anyways. Wow that came out a lot harsher sounding than I intended it to-and now someone will probably get offended and try to get me barred 
. But it's something I feel pretty strongly about-doesn't matter whether it's here in cyberspace or in the real world.
I gotta wonder who's next on the barring list. If there's a smart@#$ list somewhere in the TDR hierarchy I'm sure my name is on it somewhere-I don't give myself credit enough to be at the top yet but give me a little more time and I'm sure I have at least a shot at it! Just bugs me to see someone get blacklisted over something that, to me anyways, smacks of censorship... .
I'm sure I'll think of something else to post here-but I'm gonna step away from the monitor for a while and go back to work while I think of it... .
Jason
I Don't Run Crying to my Mommy Anymore... .....
First off, I think it's pretty poor that Don got booted for his role in the threads from hell... . was he a little too tenacious? Could be-sometimes I wish that I was that way. IMO it's a lot easier to walk away from something then to stick with it-I admire his tenacity. Sad part is I honestly think that Don, Gene, and Tom are a lot alike. Probably if the 3 of you ended up in a room together you'd find a lot of common interests and subjects for discussion... . but then again I could be way out to lunch here.
. Whether you call it muzzling, censorship, or trying to keep the peace, I'm dead against it..... who was it that said (and I think I'm paraphrasing a little here) "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death"? As long as nobody's threatening bodily harm etc, what's the big deal? We're all grownups here, aren't we? I'm not gonna let my feelings get hurt over a stupid post on an Internet forum.....
As for the folks whining to the moderators, What it boils down to folks is what Howard et al have said above-IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T READ IT!!!!! Nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to read the argumentative threads-if they do you've got bigger problems than the Amsoil Wars!
Probably the same types we get out here-who move out from the city and expect the surrounding area to change for them..... not gonna happen. Doesn't matter whether it's an oil or gas processing facility, intensive livestock operation, or what have you, somebody buys an acreage right beside it and the whining begins... ... if it's built after you buy you have a gripe, if not live with it or move back to the 'burbs where you probably belonged anyways. Wow that came out a lot harsher sounding than I intended it to-and now someone will probably get offended and try to get me barred . But it's something I feel pretty strongly about-doesn't matter whether it's here in cyberspace or in the real world. I gotta wonder who's next on the barring list. If there's a smart@#$ list somewhere in the TDR hierarchy I'm sure my name is on it somewhere-I don't give myself credit enough to be at the top yet but give me a little more time and I'm sure I have at least a shot at it!
Just bugs me to see someone get blacklisted over something that, to me anyways, smacks of censorship... . I'm sure I'll think of something else to post here-but I'm gonna step away from the monitor for a while and go back to work while I think of it... .
Jason
I Don't Run Crying to my Mommy Anymore... .....
If Don had cursed people out, or had clearly violated the rules of the forum, no one would be objecting to this would they?
Steve, you state we should not post, "... because whatever actions have been taken are between the TDR management staff and the user/users in question. "
But that is the POINT! When Don is terminated for what many people believe are arbitrary and rather mean-spirited grounds, it is no longer a private affair between the TDRMS and us "users". When someone is terminated under these circumstances it makes us all a little nervous contemplating what actions might be taken against US for daring to speak up if we think we are right.
No one has a problem with your stopping a thread which has become too heated. That action makes good sense. It allows people to cool down.
But to arbitrarily deny posting privleges in this situation smacks of small- minded favoritism.
Mr. Paxton, the TDR is your Company. You can run it any way you want.
I urge you to ask Don back into the TDR Forums.
--Robert Rausch
Steve, you state we should not post, "... because whatever actions have been taken are between the TDR management staff and the user/users in question. "
But that is the POINT! When Don is terminated for what many people believe are arbitrary and rather mean-spirited grounds, it is no longer a private affair between the TDRMS and us "users". When someone is terminated under these circumstances it makes us all a little nervous contemplating what actions might be taken against US for daring to speak up if we think we are right.
No one has a problem with your stopping a thread which has become too heated. That action makes good sense. It allows people to cool down.
But to arbitrarily deny posting privleges in this situation smacks of small- minded favoritism.
Mr. Paxton, the TDR is your Company. You can run it any way you want.
I urge you to ask Don back into the TDR Forums.
--Robert Rausch
"Let's not argue over 'oo killed 'oom... "
In the oil threads, tempers were lost (or nearly so), and epithets were hurled; such actions are hardly the hallmarks of worthwhile discussions.
Some participants were right. Some were wrong. Yet others were right *and* wrong.
This is true of all discussions and arguments.
The purpose of these fora is, perhaps among others, to share information and experiences and to discuss problems and potential solutions.
Moderators & Admins:
Yours can be a difficult and onerous task; I do not envy you your position. You can only try to make the best, most balanced decision you can. Unfortunately, sometimes it is one that we none of us like, but have to live with regardless.
Fest3er
P. S. The source of the (mis)quote is left as an exercise for the student.
In the oil threads, tempers were lost (or nearly so), and epithets were hurled; such actions are hardly the hallmarks of worthwhile discussions.
Some participants were right. Some were wrong. Yet others were right *and* wrong.
This is true of all discussions and arguments.
The purpose of these fora is, perhaps among others, to share information and experiences and to discuss problems and potential solutions.
- The best such discussion results in the participants finding the most reasonable solution for the problem owner to use.
- A less optimal discussion yields some reasonable range of solutions that the problem owner can employ, either singly or sequentially, to solve the problem.
- A nearly worthless discussion involves one or more participants taking polemic positions and refusing to budge. ('Nearly' worthless because it does serve as a bad example, and because some good information does come out of it. )
Moderators & Admins:
Yours can be a difficult and onerous task; I do not envy you your position. You can only try to make the best, most balanced decision you can. Unfortunately, sometimes it is one that we none of us like, but have to live with regardless.
Fest3er
P. S. The source of the (mis)quote is left as an exercise for the student.
I am relatively new to the TDR. I not only read the various posts; I also look closely at the person making the post. Over time, they will show a pattern of their attitude. Most of the guys are great.
There are those who are of the belief they are part of a solution, and not part of a problem. This is true only if you agree with their point of view.
I have identified at least four that are very arrogant and all knowing. They use words like “hen house ways”, instead of chicken S**T. I am BI-lingual, and know they both mean the same thing. I admit the anger boils in me when I read a post of their whining. Hopefully, by not naming these guys (hen house), I won’t be barred.
The result is not always the cause.
Wayne
There are those who are of the belief they are part of a solution, and not part of a problem. This is true only if you agree with their point of view.
I have identified at least four that are very arrogant and all knowing. They use words like “hen house ways”, instead of chicken S**T. I am BI-lingual, and know they both mean the same thing. I admit the anger boils in me when I read a post of their whining. Hopefully, by not naming these guys (hen house), I won’t be barred.
The result is not always the cause.
Wayne
- Status
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
Turbo Diesel Register
Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
