I'm sticking to CI-4+ engine oil

[Ncostello]

If you've read TDR issues... you'll know that the CJ-4 newer oils for DPF trucks cannot compare to the good additive packages of now scarce CI-4+ oils.



With that being said I'm switching to either John Deere Plus 50 or Cat DEO 15W40. Both are still CI-4+. Both are fine for OTR HD diesels and JD says diesel pickups specifically on their website. Dealers are close to me too. So availability is no worse. Its actually farther to Wal-mart than MacAllister CAT for me.



I used up my last Delo400 CI-4 and everything everywhere now is CJ-4. Using CJ-4 just isn't worth it in older diesels.



Anybody use CAT or JD oils?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I'm with you - trick in many areas, is finding a SOURCE for the CI4-Plus stuff...



I have enough of the DELO 400 stuff for the next couple of years - but about that time it will exceed shelf life anyway...

 

[BHanna]

I was just at Wal-Mart and the only CI-4 still on the shelves there is their store brand. Is it any good? I picked up enough for my next change but I'm going to wait to hear from you guys if I should actually use it. Price was good at $8. 50/gal.

 

[drag racer]

Once the CI is all gone, about the only thing we can do is start using an additive that puts the ZDDP and other good stuff back in. Not a big deal.

 

[FourBarR]

I am using wal mart 15-40 ci for several months. In canada it is rebaged shell 15-40 which I have been using for all my 510,000kms. Just changed the oil yesterday after 10,000 kms( 6000k) still at the full mark.

 

[Ncostello]

Well... since CAT doesn't have to use DPF's among other things (yet) and they are out of the on-road business... I've been told they are going to offer the CAT DEO 15W-40, 10W-30, and 0W-40 DEO SYN for some time in CI-4+ form. Along with a CJ-4.



The CJ-4 CAT oil is called DEO-ULS for those who might want that. Or when they do start using DPF's in off road engines. Eventually the exhaust systems will be required to have no outlet. The EPA will "legislate" that the exhaust must be infinitely re-burned. Wonder if CK-4 or whatever can handle that?



I've read tons of articles on it including the good one published by TDR. Everything points to the fact that CJ-4 just isn't as good. If the new trucks could run CI-4+ they would still be using it. But the emission control systems can't handle the additives in the oil. So a leaner oil was developed, and to handle higher heat.



I know they say its backwards compatible... but thats so they can keep selling it and everybody is happy and smiling. But I know better. The devil is in the details.



I had somebody tell me CJ-4 "HAS" to be used in any diesel now because it was developed to "combat" USLD fuel. He can't be reasoned with. Well... I remember using ULSD fuel before CJ-4's came out and before I ever heard of a DPF equipped truck. I think the CJ-4 is simply to deal with the emission control systems on new trucks. The excessive additives in CI seems to foul the new emissions systems via oil burning and crank case vapors. Thats my take.



It doesn't matter if I'm using LSD 500ppm, ULSD or JP8 jet fuel or kerosene. CI-4+ is the best oil I can use in my opinion since I don't have DPF's.



CAT oil is convenient for me to get and costs $15. 00 per gallon. I bet I can get a better price than that from my dealer. However only their 10W-30 DEO was API certified to the CI-4+ to get the starburst logo. CAT says the exact same additives were used in the 15W-40 DEO, beginning with a different high grade base stock. So they didn't pay the money to prove the same results. They label it as meets API CI-4+ among a whole bunch of other tests it passes. Including one for Cummins and one for GM.

 

[Ncostello]

Here was a good article about how CI-4+ came to be, out of FleetOwner magazine. Note how they describe a couple of problems (back before CJ-4 was developed) and cost of producing an oil to meet 2007 requiements and beyond. Sounds like 2011 requirements will again see a change in oil.



ENGINE OILS: Adding a Plus

 

[Ncostello]

And this article for equipment fleet owners seems to give credibility to using CJ-4 in everything... except that in the end they say that using CI-4's in 2006 and older engines should still be done if possible. In fact it says there is no real data proving CI-4's can't meet the minimum DPF life expectancies and Cummins allows it for their on-road 2007+ engines.



Side by Side: CJ-4 vs. CI-4/CI-4 PLUS oil - EquipmentWorldMagazine.com

 

[WilsonF]

Wal-Mart Stuff

I was just at Wal-Mart and the only CI-4 still on the shelves there is their store brand. Is it any good? I picked up enough for my next change but I'm going to wait to hear from you guys if I should actually use it. Price was good at $8. 50/gal.

In one of the many TDR articles on oil they rated the Wal-Mart oil as pretty good, better that some brand names. I use it.



Floyd

 

[CWright]

There is a company in Indianapolis IN. that still produces CI4 and CI4+ oils. it is D-A Lubricant Co. Inc. Their phone is 317-923-5321. Check their web sight. Gives all specs. Prices are reasonable and they ship to your door. also do oil sampling. I have been using for over a year and am satisfied. Hope this helps.

Clayton.

 

[amsoilman]

Amsoil is also still producing a CI-4 PLUS 15W-40 Diesel oil. They are also producing two CJ-4 Diesel oils, which are 5W-40 and 15W-40 oils. These oils are 100% Synthetic.

 

[Grey Wolf]

76 Guardol QLT 15W-40 is still available in CI-4 and CI-4 Plus formulation.



http://www.conocophillipslubricants...ngine_oils/76 Guardol QLT Multigrades TDS.pdf

 

[GaryOwen]

From my own experience with CJ dino oil in my 03, I didn't see any noticeable difference in oil samples vs CI-4, except for lower initial and subsequent TBN numbers. TBN number was still very good though after 12k miles with the CJ. I'm not saying that CJ is just as good, but I don't think there is a significant difference in the performance of the oils. I think the rest of our trucks will still wear out well before the engine does.

 

[Ncostello]

I've talked to some oil suppliers that we use at work and their knowledge is that real world tests are showing CJ oils are returning good analysis reports and low wear. They believe the CJ oils are superior in detergency and soot control which is what they were developed for in conjunction with ULSD.



Supposedly with ULSD... the sulfur isn't there to make as much acid in the oil and thus the TBN doesn't need to be as high.



I'm open to information as all I've read before points to using CI-4 plus if possible.



One of my old bottles of DELO400 is CI-4 plus... and its got a label on the bottle stating specifically that it is "formulated for ULSD fuels". So to me... it seems CJ-4 isn't the only thing capable of dealing with ULSD.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Bottom line for most oil buyers is, IF you could legally, and satisfying ALL warranty issues, buy either the CI4-Plus, OR the CJ, WHICH would YOU choose?



WHY? :-laf



Be honest now! :-laf

 

[GaryOwen]

My TBN number on a Shell Rotella T 12k mile sample was 6. 6. TBN on CJ-4 Rotella is supposedly 10. 1 when new. I was using ULSD fuel at the time. Still plenty of TBN.



Iron was 12 ppm on 12k mile sample with CJ Rotella.

Iron was 10 ppm on 8k mile sample with CI4+ Rotella.



If CI4+ was on the shelf beside the CJ, I would pick the CI4+. If the CI4+ was at the other end of the aisle, I would pick the CJ and be on my way.



Note that these sample results were on my 03, which I have sold. I have never sampled the oil on my 95.

 

[georgej]

My truck usage, since retirement, has changed and I'm either using the truck for long distance heavy towing trips or farting around with a 10-15 mile drive to the docs or lunch with friends. Then it sits for days or weeks at a time so the oils TBN is critical to my style of driving. And like Gary and others here I've stockpiled a few cases of CI4 +. Someday, I suppose ,it will not be available but being 70 years old me or the truck will wear out first :-laf

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Here's something not commented here enough regarding at least the Chevron DELO lubes - and probably their latest CJ stuff as well - there are a number of refiners marketing "CI" and "CJ" graded oils - but Chevron is at least ONE that rates theirs as "ISOSYN".



What does that mean? Here's a couple of explanations:

ISO SYN: W. T. H. is it?



It's one of the best values to be had. A high quality dino oil manufactured through their Isodewaxing process and sold at regular dino price. Though technicaly the process involved is synthesis using dino oil for feedstock, it is to their credit that they do not market it as synthetic oil sold at synthetic prices. It is marketed as Chevron Supreme 'motor oil'.



Between Chevron Supreme and Chevron DELO, I've managed to accumulate over 600,000 miles combined over four different vehicles. So I'm pretty satisfied with it.

Another:

Formulated with ISOSYN® technology

All lubricants in the Delo® Advantage range utilise ISOSYN® technology, a patented process that purifies and refines mineral base oils by removing impurities and contaminants such as nitrogen, sulphur and wax. ISOSYN® mineral based lubricants provide performance equivalent to synthetics, at a lower cost.

I've seen a number of synthetic lube friction (wear scar) comparisons - but NEVER any comparing against Chevron DELO 400 CI4-Plus - wonder why? :-laf



How about it Wayne - got any up your sleeve? :-laf

 

[BDaugherty]

CAT has 2 different part numbers for their 15W40. If you got to a truck engine shop, you may only find the CJ oil. An earthmoving shop should be able to get the CL4+ or CJ. I used CAT oil for years until my supply ran out. Now I'm using Kendall Super D3 CL4+ oil.

 

[Ncostello]

When I was at CAT... the CI4 mark was on the DEO 15W-40 bottles. DEO-ULS is the CJ4 15W-40. This place is both heavy equipment and truck engine service center. They also have the DEO-SYN synthetic for $38/gallon. Ouch!!



Parts guy said that Mobil makes the CAT oil but to their special specs.



You know Gary... I was once a very happy person buying DELO CI-4 Plus. I knew it was very good stuff... as I too had read it was comparable to synthetics. It was all I would buy for all of my vehicles and the mowers. Leave it to Government. A guy can't even be happy for a few years buying the kind of oil he prefers. I've got a half jug left. I leave it there so I can glance at it once in a while and remember when times were easy and simple. .