I currently have a full DTT transmission with a 91%tc and will be switching to the ATS transmission. If any of you have any ideas that you want me to try and compare the two with, let me know. There was another thread with test ideas too, but it is burried somewhere.
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I'm swithing from DTT to ATS, need tests to compare
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I think that it would be informative to know temps, both pulling and not, shift patterns (RPM, "tightness", etc... ), and differences between the TC's lockup functionality (and their lockup controllers).
I have the ATS, and I'm extatic!!!
Oo. Oo. Oo.
Just curious as to why the change...
Joel
I have the ATS, and I'm extatic!!!
Oo. Oo. Oo. Just curious as to why the change...
Joel
Errrrrrrrrr... ... ... let's just say I don't really like the DTT way of trying to do everything in fluid coupling because there is too much compromise. I don't like this transmission very much. It is worlds better than stock, but then I REALLY hated the stock transmission. OTOH the stock transmission did some things better than the DTT transmission. In MY type of driving the stock transmission always ran cooler (for example). There is a growing list of things I don't like about this transmission, all of which I will list in my "final report" after the switch.
I'm going to do the switch (hopefully) in the second week in June. Oo. I wanna drop kick this thing at the moment. 
Chris,
I find it interesting that you would make a post like this after reading some of your opinions on the vendor that you are going to.
You don't even have close to a full DTT trans, remember you wanted a repair not rebuild. No 5 clutch pack or anything. You say that you don't want to wreck your credibility, it's tough not to do when you say one thing about a company online then another offline.
You also said that you were going to make power to be able to use a 91% TC in Utah(high elevation) against our suggestions. Did you ever stop and think maybe we tell customers what would be best suited for them for a reason?
Another thing that I noticed is that the trans was great until you started talking to another vendor about transmissions. I believe that is called falling for a sales pitch hook line and sinker in your words.
Just a question to you because someone had ask you earlier on a different thread if you are being sponsered for this trans (meaning getting a free or discounted trans) because on a different thread you needed to sell a cam plate for your truck to get repaired and now you are doing an approx. $4000 trans to your truck? Could that be the reason you have been so hard on a company, remember some already know the answer to the question.
I find it interesting that you would make a post like this after reading some of your opinions on the vendor that you are going to.
You don't even have close to a full DTT trans, remember you wanted a repair not rebuild. No 5 clutch pack or anything. You say that you don't want to wreck your credibility, it's tough not to do when you say one thing about a company online then another offline.
You also said that you were going to make power to be able to use a 91% TC in Utah(high elevation) against our suggestions. Did you ever stop and think maybe we tell customers what would be best suited for them for a reason?
Another thing that I noticed is that the trans was great until you started talking to another vendor about transmissions. I believe that is called falling for a sales pitch hook line and sinker in your words.
Just a question to you because someone had ask you earlier on a different thread if you are being sponsered for this trans (meaning getting a free or discounted trans) because on a different thread you needed to sell a cam plate for your truck to get repaired and now you are doing an approx. $4000 trans to your truck? Could that be the reason you have been so hard on a company, remember some already know the answer to the question.
I wasn't aware that Chris didn't have the full DTT trans. Seems to me that to go from what he has to a full ATS is not a apples to apples comparison.
PS. Hey Stefan, 5000 miles and still loving the trans. And the relocated LP is running strong at 16 psi at idle. I never thanked you for driving me to Cummins BC to get that darn lift pump. On a second note... . my fiancee found out about the trans and was not a happy camper. :-{} Thanks again for the great trans and top notch sevice. I really learned alot about the inside of my transmission.
PS. Hey Stefan, 5000 miles and still loving the trans. And the relocated LP is running strong at 16 psi at idle. I never thanked you for driving me to Cummins BC to get that darn lift pump. On a second note... . my fiancee found out about the trans and was not a happy camper. :-{} Thanks again for the great trans and top notch sevice. I really learned alot about the inside of my transmission.
Stefan- I got a FULL rebuild, or at least that is what I paid for. Are you saying that I didn't get what I paid for? I drove there from Salt Lake with a perfectly good (well... . as good as it can be) stock transmission. I DIDN'T need a repair.
As for some things I said about ATS off line... ... ... ..... yes, I did have some issues with ATS. I believed that I was being misled. I drove back to Denver last weekend (I didn't sleep at all Friday night) to get this resolved and even though I hit an elk on the way back, I am still glad I went. The issues I put to rest were VERY serious and turned out to be nothing more than BAD communication.
Private messages are just that: private. That should have never ended up in your hands, but whatever happens... it happens. I consider reading someone else’s mail a bad thing, kind of like eavesdropping. I know who gave you that and I won’t be sending that person any more private messages. That is a breech of trust.
As for my financial issues... ... . that is none of your business. I have gone to great lengths to get the time off of work necessary to go to ATS for the swap. Putting it off because I am down $500 is quite out of the question. It must be made up because I don't have enough saved up to compensate for that.
I damn sure better have a full DTT trans………. I’ve got the invoice right here for anyone who wants to see it. And as for power………. . I have plenty of power after a couple of days of waiting for boost. I really don’t like Bill’s converters, even the 89 is too tight. This thing sucks on the top end and the DTT philosophy of doing everything in fluid coupling is BS. You’ve just added the straw that broke the camel’s back Stefan. I really don’t like this transmission and now I am going to let everyone know. I’ve had issues with it since day one. My stock transmission ran cooler than this one. I’ve just kept my mouth shut because, until now, there hasn’t been anything better. I am sick of putting this thing in neutral at every single friggin stop light. I am sick of my truck smoking when I put in drive because this converter is so tight. I am sick of waiting until second gear for boost. I am sick of seeing 250 degrees after a race. I am sick of having a lockup clutch that needs a tc saver to stop from slipping ( I HATED that thing). I got the 91% because I wanted top end performance. I hate the top end performance on this converter. If it was tight on the top end I would gladly put up with the lag and the heat, but it’s not. Under most conditions I have a 400-500 rpm drop from WOT to lockup. It must be way worse on other trucks that “have power”. I hope you’re happy Stefan. This is why I am switching. I am learning the expensive way why people are so defensive about their trannies: BECAUSE PAYING FOR IT TWICE SUCKS THE BIG ONE STEFAN!!
Now can we get on with the purpose of this thread? I want to be able to provide everyone here with some information they can use to evaluate which one they want. Despite my dislike for the DTT trans, (whole philosophy really) I know there are people who don’t think like me. There are people who don’t like chicken (or whatever) and those who do. I am going to leave all personal prejudice (as you can see there might be some) out of this. All you will get is the truth.
As for some things I said about ATS off line... ... ... ..... yes, I did have some issues with ATS. I believed that I was being misled. I drove back to Denver last weekend (I didn't sleep at all Friday night) to get this resolved and even though I hit an elk on the way back, I am still glad I went. The issues I put to rest were VERY serious and turned out to be nothing more than BAD communication.
Private messages are just that: private. That should have never ended up in your hands, but whatever happens... it happens. I consider reading someone else’s mail a bad thing, kind of like eavesdropping. I know who gave you that and I won’t be sending that person any more private messages. That is a breech of trust.
As for my financial issues... ... . that is none of your business. I have gone to great lengths to get the time off of work necessary to go to ATS for the swap. Putting it off because I am down $500 is quite out of the question. It must be made up because I don't have enough saved up to compensate for that.
I damn sure better have a full DTT trans………. I’ve got the invoice right here for anyone who wants to see it. And as for power………. . I have plenty of power after a couple of days of waiting for boost. I really don’t like Bill’s converters, even the 89 is too tight. This thing sucks on the top end and the DTT philosophy of doing everything in fluid coupling is BS. You’ve just added the straw that broke the camel’s back Stefan. I really don’t like this transmission and now I am going to let everyone know. I’ve had issues with it since day one. My stock transmission ran cooler than this one. I’ve just kept my mouth shut because, until now, there hasn’t been anything better. I am sick of putting this thing in neutral at every single friggin stop light. I am sick of my truck smoking when I put in drive because this converter is so tight. I am sick of waiting until second gear for boost. I am sick of seeing 250 degrees after a race. I am sick of having a lockup clutch that needs a tc saver to stop from slipping ( I HATED that thing). I got the 91% because I wanted top end performance. I hate the top end performance on this converter. If it was tight on the top end I would gladly put up with the lag and the heat, but it’s not. Under most conditions I have a 400-500 rpm drop from WOT to lockup. It must be way worse on other trucks that “have power”. I hope you’re happy Stefan. This is why I am switching. I am learning the expensive way why people are so defensive about their trannies: BECAUSE PAYING FOR IT TWICE SUCKS THE BIG ONE STEFAN!!
Now can we get on with the purpose of this thread? I want to be able to provide everyone here with some information they can use to evaluate which one they want. Despite my dislike for the DTT trans, (whole philosophy really) I know there are people who don’t think like me. There are people who don’t like chicken (or whatever) and those who do. I am going to leave all personal prejudice (as you can see there might be some) out of this. All you will get is the truth.
Another thing- I want ideas for testing the two trannies. That is the purpose of this thread. If it turns into a transmission war (more) then, well, YOUR idea won't get tried because I'm out of here if that happens. 
Keep it cival, sorry for the rant, I just had to vent a little after reading what Stefan wrote.
Keep it cival, sorry for the rant, I just had to vent a little after reading what Stefan wrote.::-{} ... thats a good one ...
chris your 400-500 rpm drop is confusing to me , i didn't have that big a drop ever going into lockup when i had a 91 convertor and 500 hp ??? maybe you got a bad one ??? under WOT the the last shift you are seeing is 3rd to OD , it won't go into lockup with your foot on the firewall till close to 100 mph (unless you have a race convertor) , there is no way you are getting that rpm drop at that speed . i installed and test drove these TC's so i know what i speak of .
the TC saver is to keep the TC from slipping for guys that don't know anything but foot on the firewall , if you adjust it to your driving habits its not a problem .
whats ATS paying you for that DTT core ??? i wonder what will happen to it ????
this is not a knock against ATS but they are where DTT was back in oct of 2000 , the FLAVOR of the month .
only DTT's flavor is still tasting as good today as it did then . i wonder how well ATS will taste a year plus from now ????
you want a test , find an incline , something over 10-15 degrees . stop at the bottom , take your foot off the brake and see how far you go up the incline in idle before ATS does there thing . do the exact same thing after your ATS upgrade(?) .
Chris,
Did it occur to you that maybe something is wrong with the transmission if it is really that bad. OK, maybe the TC is not what your looking for, too each his own. But if you have a full DTT trans than why in the world would you not just drop a ATS TC in since your quarrels are with the fluid coupling and the lock-up of the DTT TC. Seems like a waste of money to go the whole nine yards again because outside of the TC I highly doubt there is a world of different. ( ok maybe the setup of the VB too ) Since you seem to know alot about the inners of the auto then what EXACTLY will you gain by doing the full ATS that you wouldn't have by installing a ATS TC and VB in your current trans. Keep in mind that I like most here on TDR don't know about the specifics of the working in a auto so I would like rather specific differences. And no I don't want to call ATS to get this information because I don't need someone to try to sell me a new trans. I am extremely happy with the DTT trans I have now.
Does it not seem strange that there are people with the 93% that don't complain about the fluid coupling near as much as you do. Ok again, maybe they are not as vocal as you. But from my view (and many others) you seem too quick to bad mouth DTT and praise that the lord himself brought ATS to this world. How many threads have you started saying how bad your Trans is or how good ATS is, 5... . 10 maybe. But yet through this all you probably haven't called Bill once to see if there is anything that can be done to make your auto more to your liking. It also seems, dare I say, that ATS is using you for advertising, or should I say negative advertising. I am curious what you gain from this. Never mind, it really doesn't matter.
Don't be quick to judge me as I am not trying to flame you or call you a liar..... I am merely bringing insight from the other side of the spectrum. But you REALLY seem TOOOO prejudice when it comes to your transmission.
Oh for what its worth, good luck on your new transmission. Hope you like it as much as I like mine.
Did it occur to you that maybe something is wrong with the transmission if it is really that bad. OK, maybe the TC is not what your looking for, too each his own. But if you have a full DTT trans than why in the world would you not just drop a ATS TC in since your quarrels are with the fluid coupling and the lock-up of the DTT TC. Seems like a waste of money to go the whole nine yards again because outside of the TC I highly doubt there is a world of different. ( ok maybe the setup of the VB too ) Since you seem to know alot about the inners of the auto then what EXACTLY will you gain by doing the full ATS that you wouldn't have by installing a ATS TC and VB in your current trans. Keep in mind that I like most here on TDR don't know about the specifics of the working in a auto so I would like rather specific differences. And no I don't want to call ATS to get this information because I don't need someone to try to sell me a new trans. I am extremely happy with the DTT trans I have now.
Does it not seem strange that there are people with the 93% that don't complain about the fluid coupling near as much as you do. Ok again, maybe they are not as vocal as you. But from my view (and many others) you seem too quick to bad mouth DTT and praise that the lord himself brought ATS to this world. How many threads have you started saying how bad your Trans is or how good ATS is, 5... . 10 maybe. But yet through this all you probably haven't called Bill once to see if there is anything that can be done to make your auto more to your liking. It also seems, dare I say, that ATS is using you for advertising, or should I say negative advertising. I am curious what you gain from this. Never mind, it really doesn't matter.
Don't be quick to judge me as I am not trying to flame you or call you a liar..... I am merely bringing insight from the other side of the spectrum. But you REALLY seem TOOOO prejudice when it comes to your transmission.
Oh for what its worth, good luck on your new transmission. Hope you like it as much as I like mine.
I really doubt it is bad because it felt the same as the one in Stefan’s truck (he used to have the 91%). I don't know if you have a better converter than mine, but I DO have a 450 rpm drop to lockup at 70 mph. How do I know? 70 mph is exactly 2000 rpm when locked. 70 mph wot unlocked, steady speed (with the help of the lovely tc saver) just barely below 2500 rpm. Wanna come over to my house? I'll show anyone who does. IMO Fluid coupling doesn't even begin to compare to lockup at freeway speeds.
Look, if you want to go up an incline at idle, get the DTT tc. Like I told chipstien, to each his own. GET WHAT YOU LIKE. THAT IS THE REASON I AM SWITCHING!!! WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT???????????????
If you don't like bananas then don't eat them. Whatever, eh? I came off pretty hard on Stefan because he told me that I didn't even get what I paid for. I think that was an honest mistake on his part.
All of the DTT people that think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread... ... ... ... ... ... ... . get the DTT trans/tc, ok? HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY THAT????? I really think that Bill makes a good transmission and perhaps something is wrong with mine, but I don't think so. Bill said that it would slip at lower rpms if I went wot below 1700 or so. I can deal with that, but I'd rather not have it do that.
As for the reason for the whole ATS trans and not just the tc and vb... ... . there are some quite significant things that ATS does differently than other manufacturers. I can't be too specific because Clint has trusted me with some proprietary information that I'm not supposed to tell everyone about. I wanted to know the details of how he makes a transmission that can withstand locked shifts and he told me some of them. I am not about to spill what I know about trannies, turbos, or fuel systems because people have trusted me not to tell anyone their secrets. If you can't understand that I'm sorry, but there are many things that ATS does to their transmission that are different than everyone else. I need the whole transmission if I want the best of what they have to offer. When I do something I do it right so that I (hopefully, didn't work this time) don't have to do it again.
When I went to see Bill for my trans, I told him not to cut any corners, to do the whole job, and to make it as strong as possible. That is part of the reason I drove 1100 miles- to ensure that it was done right the first time. This is part of the reason I am kind of upset over wanting (I don't absolutely NEED a new transmission) the ATS trans.
All of this is JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please take it as such, with the exception of the tests. That is why I want the ideas for the tests, ok? To take as much of my opinion out of this as possible so others can make their decision based on facts, not just my opinion. No one should buy one transmission over another just because I said to. It would be like saying: "go eat bananas; they're good!! Do it now!!" What the heck would that accomplish? If you don't like bananas you're going to come back and smack me.
Now all of you that don't like me... . go back and read that last paragraph again please.
Now listen and listen well. If you like DTT what DTT has to offer, buy DTT. If you like what ATS has to offer, buy ATS. All I want to do is try to help people sitting on the fence to know what the differences are. Now will you help me do this? Telling people that DTT is BETTER than ATS or that ATS is BETTER than DTT is no wiser than telling them that apples are better than oranges.
SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LIKE DTT BETTER THAN ATS, WOW!!!!
SOME PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LIKE ATS BETTER THAN DTT, WOW AGAIN!!!
Now, please, please, please do not let this turn into a war.
I am just as guilty (or more) of turning this into a war as anyone else. I apologize for my immaturity. Like I said, I think Stefan just made a mistake, he doesn't have every customer's purchase memorized.
Ok people... ... ... . some test ideas please!
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Chris you need to mellow out alittle. I have just a DTT TC in my 96 other trans upgrades were done by my local Trans shop. Unless I'm reading the literature wrong ATS says they do not use increased line pressure in their trans so I believe just using their TC in a DTT trans might not work to well. I tow heavy loads with my 96 (see sig) and I am very happy with Bill's TC. II'm still reading and trying to make up my mind about my 99 as I'm going to be needing a new trany soon for it. 
Um if you have that big of a drop just going to lockup I'd be looking for something to be wrong. Are you talking about just lockup?
I beg to differ on fluid coupling... ..... mines pretty quick.
Weren't you told the trans would run a lil hotter around town? You seem to have a big hang up about that, but I thought it was common knowledge?
Something wrong here
Chris, it sounds like you are mixing up third gear and overdrive, and thinking that they are lockup and unlocked.
In my truck, 70 mph in OD [fourth] is 2000 rpm. If I double-push the OD button, the TC will unlock for a few seconds, this shows about 2100rpm, then it drops back to 2000.
If I am at 70mph and lock out OD [one push of the OD button], and drop into third, the rpm is 2500 or so. My truck is a 2001, 3. 54 gears, stock tires.
What you are experiencing [IMO] is the large ratio spacing that the Dodge transmission has between Third [direct] gear, and Fourth {OD} gear. You will see the same rpm drop when your new trans shifts from third to fourth [OD].
For your tests:
I will be curious just how much cooler the ATS temps are when you drive around town. Well documented driving conditions strictly comparing apples to apples will be good information for all of us.
I would suggest towing with numerous starts and stops, starts going uphill will really tell just how good a TC is.
Record the stall speed with both transmissions, and record just how soon you get boost when accelerating from a stop. The most meaningful way to record this will be distance traveled [in truck lengths] or at what MPH the boost comes on.
The much looser [than DTT 91%] ATS fluid drive will I'm sure give you boost several truck lengths sooner than the tight DTT 91% TC. You probably will like this at your elevation.
Record outside ambient temps, the trailer weight, and use the same road course. We can learn just how effective it is or isn't to tow or drive in town with locked to locked shifting.
Once you are out on the highway, locked is locked, so your trans temps will be around 140-160* just like everyone else's are.
I don't know what your TC Saver is supposed to do, but my Smart Controller allows me to adjust when the DTT TC unlocks, and I don't unlock until the pedal is on the floor in either third or fourth gear.
I hope you can find a passenger to record this info, trying to do this and drive can be dangerous. [ My dB meter on the console has nearly caused an accident or two!!]
I hope you get to the 'happy' phase with your new trans real quick.
Greg L
Chris, it sounds like you are mixing up third gear and overdrive, and thinking that they are lockup and unlocked.
In my truck, 70 mph in OD [fourth] is 2000 rpm. If I double-push the OD button, the TC will unlock for a few seconds, this shows about 2100rpm, then it drops back to 2000.
If I am at 70mph and lock out OD [one push of the OD button], and drop into third, the rpm is 2500 or so. My truck is a 2001, 3. 54 gears, stock tires.
What you are experiencing [IMO] is the large ratio spacing that the Dodge transmission has between Third [direct] gear, and Fourth {OD} gear. You will see the same rpm drop when your new trans shifts from third to fourth [OD].
For your tests:
I will be curious just how much cooler the ATS temps are when you drive around town. Well documented driving conditions strictly comparing apples to apples will be good information for all of us.
I would suggest towing with numerous starts and stops, starts going uphill will really tell just how good a TC is.
Record the stall speed with both transmissions, and record just how soon you get boost when accelerating from a stop. The most meaningful way to record this will be distance traveled [in truck lengths] or at what MPH the boost comes on.
The much looser [than DTT 91%] ATS fluid drive will I'm sure give you boost several truck lengths sooner than the tight DTT 91% TC. You probably will like this at your elevation.
Record outside ambient temps, the trailer weight, and use the same road course. We can learn just how effective it is or isn't to tow or drive in town with locked to locked shifting.
Once you are out on the highway, locked is locked, so your trans temps will be around 140-160* just like everyone else's are.
I don't know what your TC Saver is supposed to do, but my Smart Controller allows me to adjust when the DTT TC unlocks, and I don't unlock until the pedal is on the floor in either third or fourth gear.
I hope you can find a passenger to record this info, trying to do this and drive can be dangerous. [ My dB meter on the console has nearly caused an accident or two!!]
I hope you get to the 'happy' phase with your new trans real quick.
Greg L
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Chris;
I like Lsfarm's ideas on the tests.
Uhhh... . if you're totally giving up on the the DTT transmission, are you interested in selling it? I got a buddy with a 98 12 valve that wants a DTT set up. Or are you gonna just give it as a core to ATS?
Did I hear you right? Is ATS gonna be selling performance goodies also? I wonder if they'll be putting out a twin turbo set up?
Josiah
I like Lsfarm's ideas on the tests.
Uhhh... . if you're totally giving up on the the DTT transmission, are you interested in selling it? I got a buddy with a 98 12 valve that wants a DTT set up. Or are you gonna just give it as a core to ATS?
Did I hear you right? Is ATS gonna be selling performance goodies also? I wonder if they'll be putting out a twin turbo set up?
Josiah
what in it?
Cris,
You sound as though you really know first hand what kind of performance you expect with your transmission mods. I've been following your threads and I'm wondering why you didn't have DTT fix a problem for you if you indeed had one. When did you discover that you didn't like the concept of fluid coupling to put your power to the ground? I have been looking at transmission mods for a while and DTT has always promoted better fluid coupling. Didn't you know this? Have you considered a manual transmission swap? I think you might be able to justify that in your case with all of the auto trans problems that you are having. But then, there are the clutches and kevlar and dual whatevers...
If it's not too much of a problem, can you post your PM so I can see through all of the anger and spatter that is going on. I think it will help me remove doubts about vendor pumping on this issue.
I got into this TDR to be better informed about the service needs and modifications to my truck. I'm still interested in that and read quite a few of the forums to better educate myself on issues that pertain to me. But when I see your posts, I get a little stressed and drawn in to the !!!!!!! and CAPS and screaming. Chill out man, it's only an automobile.
Cris,
You sound as though you really know first hand what kind of performance you expect with your transmission mods. I've been following your threads and I'm wondering why you didn't have DTT fix a problem for you if you indeed had one. When did you discover that you didn't like the concept of fluid coupling to put your power to the ground? I have been looking at transmission mods for a while and DTT has always promoted better fluid coupling. Didn't you know this? Have you considered a manual transmission swap? I think you might be able to justify that in your case with all of the auto trans problems that you are having. But then, there are the clutches and kevlar and dual whatevers...
If it's not too much of a problem, can you post your PM so I can see through all of the anger and spatter that is going on. I think it will help me remove doubts about vendor pumping on this issue.
I got into this TDR to be better informed about the service needs and modifications to my truck. I'm still interested in that and read quite a few of the forums to better educate myself on issues that pertain to me. But when I see your posts, I get a little stressed and drawn in to the !!!!!!! and CAPS and screaming. Chill out man, it's only an automobile.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
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Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
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