Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Importance of good fuel filtering

[Gary - K7GLD]

Since I have installed my Frantz sub-micron fuel filter on my '02, I have been amazed at the MANY fine metalic particles evident on the top surface of the old filters when they are replaced:



#ad




Presumably, these are LP wear material shed in normal operation, but there sure are LOTS of them - and THOSE are just the ones you can see! Sure glad I have that SUB-micron filter there between the stock FF and the LP - sure hate for any of that metalic stuff working it's way thru the stock FF and on into the VP-44 and/or injectors...



How effectively is YOUR fuel filtered? :-laf :-laf

 

[Dl5treez]

Gary, pardon the ignorance, but how long is the recommended filter change and/or cleaning interval for this unit?



Did you install it before or after the existing fuel filter?



Thanks!



Dan-

 

[Sageair]

Gary, pardon the ignorance, but how long is the recommended filter change and/or cleaning interval for this unit?



Did you install it before or after the existing fuel filter?



Thanks!



Dan-

In Gary's post he stated that he installed it between the LP and the existing fuel filter so that would be before.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

In Gary's post he stated that he installed it between the LP and the existing fuel filter so that would be before.

Correct.



I put it there because it was a bit more convenient, and also because there is a potential for some shedding of paper fibers off the TP cartridge from the factory cutting process - in my case, the stock FF is used as a sort of "safety net" to catch those particles before they hit stuff further downstream - those paper particles typically are at the upper end of the micron size scale, and of a softer material, so less a threat to mechanical parts. I also use the same multi-layer coffee filter sheets below the TP cartridge as a trap for those fibers before they can leave the Frantz canister as I alsoo do on my Frantz bypass oil filter.

 

[SHobbs]

I went a different route, well a cheaper one to be exact. I rigged a magnet to the bottom of the fuel filter housing. I have magnet on my oil filter and it works real well so I thought what the heck put one on the fuel filter too.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

I went a different route, well a cheaper one to be exact. I rigged a magnet to the bottom of the fuel filter housing. I have magnet on my oil filter and it works real well so I thought what the heck put one on the fuel filter too.

UNFORTUNATELY in your case, the debris shown in MY pic, is all copper and brass - totally immune to magnets...

 

[SHobbs]

True, but I have gotten some small metal particles out of it. So far the worst was when I switched to B100, man there was white goo at the bottom of the filter canister that time, lol.

Gary, I wonder if the stuff you are finding or filtering out could part of the VP44 failure problems.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary, I wonder if the stuff you are finding or filtering out could part of the VP44 failure problems.

I seriously doubt it - I'm not aware of many brass or copper moving parts in the VP-44 - but plenty in the 2 Carter pumps I use in my setup. Most of the particles seen would have LONG since plugged my injectors if they originated in the VP...

 

[Dl5treez]

So I can't read..... oops



It was late... . thanks though.





Have you found a cleaning/replacement interval that seems to work the best?

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I wonder if the stuff you are finding or filtering out could part of the VP44 failure problems. "



OOPS!



Looks like *I* need better reading comprehension too! :-laf



Yes, I strongly suspect that those particles might be equally common on other trucks, and that the far less efficient stock FF may not be catching all of them, allowing some to migrate into the VP-44 and close tolerance injectors - causing problems and outright failures.



In any event, I'm VERY happy to have that filter there standing quard - and would have there if only for "normal" fuel impurities.



OH - I change that element every 6 months or so - TP is cheap...

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

Is this really a

SUB-micron filter

doodaw?



Most folks, my self included, where having conniptions just trying to figure out how to get below 10 microns. 2 microns seemed like the Holy Grail. And that is if you had deep pockets or were incedibly persistant and inventive like Ryan aka rbattele(sp?).



If so what's the secret for the rest of us slackers?

I have magnet on my oil filter

Heck, A mag on the fuel lines I've heard that is suppose to up the horse power, increase mph, AND protect from rock chips. :-laf



Actually, this sounds like a good idea - the mag on the oil filter, that is.

 

[Hohn]

"I wonder if the stuff you are finding or filtering out could part of the VP44 failure problems. "



OOPS!



Looks like *I* need better reading comprehension too! :-laf



Yes, I strongly suspect that those particles might be equally common on other trucks, and that the far less efficient stock FF may not be catching all of them, allowing some to migrate into the VP-44 and close tolerance injectors - causing problems and outright failures.



In any event, I'm VERY happy to have that filter there standing quard - and would have there if only for "normal" fuel impurities.



OH - I change that element every 6 months or so - TP is cheap...

Gary, I hate to burst your bubble, but I'm quite certain that the metallic debris you are noting on your TP cartridge would ALSO be removed by the stock filter housing.



A micron is . 0000393 inches. Thus, 10 microns (the STOCK filter rating), is . 000393 inches.



Are the particles you are seeing on your TP element smaller than three ten-thousandths of an inch, in order to escape the stock FF?



I don't know many people that can even see something that small.



Never mind trying to photograph something that small.



Now if your TP was mounted after the stock FF, then your photo would be convincing evidence, indeed. At least you can see for yourself that the TP unit seems to filter well.



jh

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Justin, as I pointed out in my lead post, the particles SEEN on the surface are just that the ones you CAN see - are you saying there aren't likely to be any SMALLER ones, down at sizes that CAN'T be seen?



And if so, even at the under 10 micron size the stock FF will pass, would YOU feel blissfully comfortable leaving them in there?



*I* dern sure am not!



In any event, the main purpose of this thread is to alert owners, and provide grapic evidence of the nasties circulating in our fuel - some internally generated, and some from external sources. We have established a LONG trail of evidence of failed VP-44s - is it remotely possible that PART of those failures just MIGHT be from some of those internally generated contaminents?



Further, in the face of evidence of the volume of those contaminents - some big enough to be easily seen, and undoubtedly many more too SMALL to be seen, are most owners content to simply trust in that stock FF alone as their one and only line of defense?



Not me!



As to claimed filtering down to SUB-micron sizes, and those who would dispute it, I have only before/after oil analysis numbers to demonstrate the substantial REDUCTION in wear metals in my oil with the bypass filter - maybe not good enough "proof" for some - but for sure, my bypass WILL remain in place and in action! :-laf :-laf



But yeah, I fully realize all the supporting data in the world won't satisfy some - that's their choice!



Some might trust their engines to comforting theories deduced from the warm comfort of their easy chairs - others of us have lifted the hoods of our trucks, done research and our own testing, then acted on the results of that research and testing...



Which method do YOU prefer - easy chair, or actually lifting the hood? :-laf :-laf

 

[Hohn]

Gary, not disagreeing with you, per se.



I'm just saying that the VISIBLE particles, which are removed by your TP are also most likely to be removed by the oem FF.



There are plenty of good reasons for a TP fuel filter setup. But the metallic (visible) particles on your TP element are NOT the reason.



jh

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary, not disagreeing with you, per se.



I'm just saying that the VISIBLE particles, which are removed by your TP are also most likely to be removed by the oem FF.



There are plenty of good reasons for a TP fuel filter setup. But the metallic (visible) particles on your TP element are NOT the reason.



jh

Just as in "where there's smoke, there's FIRE", so also is the very real likelyhood that where there's lots of BIG wear particles easily seen, so is the likelihood of lots of SMALLER ones - UNseen!



And it's THOSE my filter is there to take care of, and this thread to suggest...

 

[Bob4x4]

:-laf All well and good Gary... ... ... ..... but you are still going to be replacing that vp44 someday. Thats why I skipped that era truck I have made too much money changing them at many different miles to want to own one



Bob

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

If so what's the secret for the rest of us slackers?

Hope you didn't take it as a flame. Only wanting a detailed description of your setup. So the sideline slackers amongst us could duplicate if feasible and functional. I looked at your gallery pics and it seems simpler than Ryan's herculian effort. Some of us less imaginative dullards often require detailed information to get from point A to point B.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

:-laf All well and good Gary... ... ... ..... but you are still going to be replacing that vp44 someday. Thats why I skipped that era truck I have made too much money changing them at many different miles to want to own one



Bob

Well, it's keeping that "someday" at arms length that keeps me fooling with this stuff - the filtering bit I'd do regardless of what generation truck I have - it's too easy and inexpensive to do to just let it go and trust to good luck for consistently good and clean fuel.



BUT, it'd be just my usual luck for mine to fail early after all the fooling around I've done trying to extend it's life, while some indifferent owner who steadily neglects his gets a million trouble-free miles outta his... :-laf

 

[kscheffler]

Head Loss Across the Filter???

Gary what is the pressure loss across this filter after 6 months of operation; looks like a great fuel filter system.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Gary what is the pressure loss across this filter after 6 months of operation; looks like a great fuel filter system.

It can depend on TP brand used, and how tightly it is installed into the canister - the stuff Frantz sells is very tightly packed, and I have seen as low as 10 PSI under full load towing in the hills.



"Normal", off the shelf brands like the Scotts I normally use will drop PSI about 4 PSI - or to about 15 or slightly less under the same hard pull conditions - my idle PSI with my added Carter pusher is close to 24 PSI, and cruise is about 18 - and I would NOT recommend the Frantz type fuel filter UNLESS you have an aftermarket LP or pusher setup that provides similar PSI to mine.



Here's the original testing thread I posted here a while back:



https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102344



Keep in mind the fuel pressures reported there were with the Frantz-supplied TP cartridge, so some lower than with the Scotts - obviously, the more restrictive PSI probably also translates into better filtering - it just depends on how much max available PSI you have to start with, and how much drop you can tolerate.



Also note my comments and photo near the end of that thread about the same small bits of metallic residue presented in this thread.