IMPORTANT QUESTION - injectors and pump timing

[jaynes]

Hey all!



I"m about to change out my injectors tomorrow, and I've never done this before, still a rookie, I know. I just want to know a few things. First, does it matter what condition the engine is in (i. e. cold, warmed up, hot?). Are there any precautions I should take before proceding? IS there anything really important that I should know? Stuff like this would really help me guys. I don't want to screw anything up.



As far as the pump timing goes. My timing is REALLY retarded. So retarded that with the KSB off it sounds like a realy loud gas engine and the exhaust is horribly loud. And there is alot of smoke at idle, in and out of gear. How would I go about advancing my timing? I found the marks on the injection pump and on the timing gear cover. Can someone tell me how to advance my timing, and if so, how much should I advance it, in terms of those markings.



Thanks alot in advance!!



jaynes

 

[formula]

Jaynes,



I think that the engine is supposed to be "cool" when you do the injector swap. I let it cool down for a couple of hours before doing mine. Make sure that you clean everything on top of the engine near the injectors so you don't get all kinds of crap falling into the holes. The most difficult part is going to be removing the old injectors. With a pair of vise grips and a screwdriver you should be able to yank and pry them out. I'll post the install instructions that came with my POD's tonight (much more details)



Try the injectors first, then go on to the timing. The smoke and rough running could be due (at least in part) to dirty injectors. As for the timing adjustment, there are two ways to do it. 1 - (more accurate) locate TDC for #1 cylinder and set the plunger lift of the injector pump with a dial indicator. 2 - just loosen the pump and turn it toward the engine such that the index marks move apart about 1/8". I, along with several others here, used method 2 with very satisfactory results. Check this thread for some notes on the timing adjustmenthttps://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=60101



Sean

 

[jaynes]

Sean

Thanks for your info. Very informative. I look forward to your post later on tonight about the injector installation for the PODs. And Thanks for the pump info. Really appreciate it man.



jaynes

 

[Tim1]

injector puller

Jaynes, I found it a whole bunch easier to use a home made puller to pop the old injectors out. Just take a metric nut the same size as the top of the injector and crossthread a piece of regular allthread on it. Use a heavy socket for a weight and a nut on the other end. A few slams with the socket and the injectors will pop right out. The length of the rod doesn't have to be to long, just so you can slam the socket. Works great!!!! Tim

 

[formula]

"1st Generation 12V Injector Installation Guide"

This is mostly an exact copy of the instructions I got with my POD's, I've edited/added a couple of things though.



1- Lift Hood



2- Use compressed air and some brake cleaner to clean the head around the injectors.



3- Remove the "Dodge" valve cover.



4- Remove all of the retainer clamps on the injecton lines.



5- Loosen the injector lines on the injectors (no need to loosen or remove the lines from the pump)



6- Remove the 6 banjo bolts from the fuel return line and move return line out of the way.



7- Remove injector retaining nuts and pull the injectors. NOTE: Move the injection lines just enough to remove/replace the injectors, be careful to not bend/kink the lines.



8- Blow compressed air down the injector holes to clean out any crap that's down there.



9- Install new injectors and spacer washers making sure to align the steel ball with the slot on the head. A little anti-seize on the washer will help it stick to the injector so it won't fall off when you try to put it into the hole. Torque retaining nuts to 44 lb-ft.



10- Install fuel return line. Be careful when tightening the banjo bolts, they strip easily and don't require much torque.



11- Install injection lines onto the injectors, leave the nuts a bit loose.



12- Get in truck and hold throttle to floor. Crank engine for a few seconds (it won't start). Fuel will spray all over the place.



13- Tighten the injection line nuts.



14- Start engine. It will sputter, shake and smoke for a minute or two, but then smooth out.



15- If engine is still running really rough, loosen the injection line nuts at the injectors one at a time for a couple of seconds and then tighten (do this with engine running. again, fuel will spray all over the place)



16- Shut off engine and clean up the fuel mess with some brake cleaner and compressed air.



17- Install the injection line retaining clamps and the valve cover.



18- Run engine again and check for leaks. If there are any leaks, first loosen the offending fitting and then re-tighten it.



19- Go for a drive!!!Oo.



One last note: Keep everything as clean as you possibly can! If you don't get a new set of washers for the injectors and the return line fitting, make sure to not loose the ones you have. If you do get new washers, there will probably be different choices for the thickness of washer to use on the injector. I think I used the 0. 040" washers.



Cheers,

Sean

 

[DPKetchum]

What does the washer thickness affect. Mine came with new washers on injectors and a bag of them also!I left new ones on and used them. Kept bag of them as spares!Did i do a OPPS!I also had to go back and order and replace the washers on return line rail,old ones stayed damp. New ones were $1:85 each(6). Also made a puller from two big nuts that fit injector threads by welding one to the other that also fit a small hammer pull. That worked good.

 

[formula]

The washer thickness will adjust how far the injector nozzle extends into the cylinder. This in turn will affect how the fuel is burned. It seems to be a balance of tuning the low-speed smoke and maximizing WOT power. Increasing washer thickness will retract the nozzle and help the top end but create more bottom end smoke (I could have this backwards though) I don't think that you're going to cause any damage to the engine by using whatever washer, but probably should make sure all 6 are the same.



Sean

 

[DPKetchum]

They were all the same. I mean all the one's on injectors were and one's in bag were,but they were differant. Actually a friend of mine who was here was fitting them while I was on phone,I noticed they were in and holddown nuts on and i later saw set in bag. The ones on injectors kinda had a waffle pattern,new ones were slick faced. Should have put new one's on to start with when i received them. It runs good,smoke is very low if not at all except once in heavy traffic on a restart. Idle is very smooth,cold start and smoke about same as before swap.

 

[formula]

Hummm... . don't know about the waffle washers.

PowerWagon are you out there? any comments?



SP

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

The washer thickness shouldn't have any real measurable effect on overall power whether at the low end or upper end I don't think.

The spray angle on the POD's is such that there is a bit of "overspray". Some of the fuel cloud is over shooting the piston bowl and spreading across the piston top. The smaller washers just lower the nozzle tip a bit further toward the bowl, and help contain the fuel cloud.

If you got your POD's from the guy up here in BC then I'm betting the correct washers were already on the injector.

As I understand it the . 020 washers are the one's being used with success at this point.

The only time you will have a problem with washer thickness's is if it allow tip to piston contact, which the . 020's will not.



bob.