Improving the ride...

[ENafziger]

Thanks everyone for pitching in here with suggestions!!!

At the suggestions of Robert, AEdelheit, and others, this is the plan...

The stock rear springs are ~ 52" eye-to-eye, and are comprised of 8 leaves 3/8" thick. This spring is sitting on top of a 4" block stacked with a 2" block to give 6" of lift. Obviously, this is not a great setup. Spring rate is approximately 647 lb/in.

I already have some Skyjacker CR33S springs from an '88 - 92 Chevy Suburban. These measure ~ 63" eye-to-eye, and are comprised of 5 leaves 3/8" thick. I'm doing a shackle flip with an 8" shackle. This will allow a full 6" of lift with no blocks. Obviously, the front and rear hangers will need to be relocated. Plans for this are from Offroad Exchange for those interested. These springs have a rate of ~ 257 lb/in, and offer an incredible 20" of rear suspension travel!!

In the front, I'm having Alcan make a custom front spring, somewhere on the order of 350 lb/in. Alcan Spring - Manufactures Fine Custom Leaf Springs These springs will allow 6" of lift, and I'll run 1/2" longer shackles to allow the springs to come to life and work as they should. These custom springs run about $235 each if anyone's interested.

I spoke with Don Thuren today (thanks taking the time to talk with me!!!!) from Thuren Fabrications. . : THUREN FABRICATION - HOME :. I think I'm going to run Bilstein 7100 smooth body remote reservoirs in the rear, valved at 360/50. In the front, I'll be running Bistein 7100 smooth body remote reservoirs valved at 360/80.

I chose this setup for several reasons. First, I already had the CR33s rear springs. Second, I'm running Bilstein 9100s on my '06, and they're incredible... but pricey. The goal for this truck is to have a fun 350 hp comfortable daily driver that can do everything well, but nothing great . I'm building an '87 Dodge that will be the real offroad machine, and the '06 is already setup to tow more than should be allowed. The '91. 5 will be the all around, do a little of everything truck. Finally, I don't have a huge budget for this truck... and going this route can be done for ~$1300.

With the above spring/shock combination and shackle flip on the '91. 5, I should have 12" front travel and 20" rear travel that will offer an incredible ride for daily driving, and allow 1000 lbs of tongue weight without sagging too much. The Bilstein 7100s should ride great, and allow some moderate flogging offroad when the situation arises.

As a side note, I've found the Bilstein 7100 remote reservoir shocks to be the best bang for the buck there is. They are completely rebuildable, and every seal and hard part can be purchased separately at very reasonable cost. They are one of the only shocks that you can select different valving profiles for without paying for a custom setup. They have a schraeder valve to charge with Nitrogen, and the remote reservoir and oil capacity allows them to be pushed ALOT harder than a normal emulsion shock... and at a price of $185/each, they don't require you to re-finance the house :-laf This company eshocks.com: Off-Road Shocks: Bilstein 7100 Series Shocks offers good prices and free shipping as well.

I'm probably going to fab some custom brackets and run a Bilstein 5100 series stabilizer (or two) for steering control.

I'll update with photos and feedback as things start to come together...

Thanks again!

--Eric

 

[Bob4x4]

While you have it apart beef up the p/s gear box mounting and check the crossmembers for cracking

 

[tempforce]

I would like to suggest Kelderman Air ride. They have a kit called the 'two-bag' kit made just for the 1st gens. The kit actually keeps your original leaf springs for load capacity but replaces rear shackles with a modified framework. The top half of this framework bolts where your receiver hitch is mounted... ..... the pivot point is located just aft of the hitch and the bottom framework. The bags are located between the upper and lower framework which also bolts to the bottom bolt of your shackle... ... . the factory shackle mount is removed from the frame and replaced with this framework jig.



I have this setup on my truck and is not to be confused with their more expensive 4-link setup they sell. This kit has all the benefits of retaining your load capacity and lift but unloaded, you get the benefit of air ride comfort. I tow a 40' Toyhauler with close to 4k pin weight with no problems. Google... ... . Kelderman Air ride!!



Alan

x2 with the Kelderman Air ride. i have the kit that retains the rear springs. so even with a lift you to can have a very good ride...

 

[ENafziger]

While you have it apart beef up the p/s gear box mounting and check the crossmembers for cracking<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Meaning the engine and transmission crossmembers? I'll check them out...

I am familiar with the PS gear box problems, but thanks for the reminder!

--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

Hey Guys!!!

Well, here's an update on where I'm at with this.

The Alcan custom front springs came in, and look great! I'm making some slightly longer rear shackles for these springs to allow them to "work" alot better. Since they have a greater arc than stock, the free end of the spring can move in an out alot more if allowed to do so... thus the longer shackles. For those interested, here's a link with a detailed drawing: Offroad Exchange

For the rear, I'm using the MUCH longer than stock CR33S Skyjacker springs. I've got all the pieces cut for the custom rear hangers, and hopefully will be welding these up this weekend! I'm super excited about using these springs!! Here's some information on this mod as well... several people have done it with great results, and claim 20" of travel!!! However, I think I'm going to sacrifice a little of that travel for extra weight carrying capacity by leaving the bottom 3/4" thick leaf on. How To Build the Monster Rear Suspension for your 77

The shocks came in as well!! I ended up with Bilstein 7100s in the front. They are 12" travel short bodies with 360/80 valving. The rears are Bilstein 7100s as well, and are 14" travel shocks with 360/80 valving.

The shocks look incredible! I went to mount the front shocks, anticipating about a 30 minute job. However, the Bilsteins use a 1/2" i. d. heim joint... and the stock shock stud in the front of our trucks is ~ 5/8"!! The stock shock mount uses a single shear design on the top and bottom. I wasn't comfortable with this arrangement for the Bilsteins, as they have MUCH more valving, and use a 1/2" bolt. So, I decided to re-make the mounts to incorporate a double-shear design.

I removed the upper mount, and cut off the stud. I then drilled the leftover shank part of the stud out to a 1/2" diameter.

#ad

Below you can see the piece of 1/4" angle about to be welded on. The brass round stock is used to keep things square and to get the spacing of the shock eyelet and misalignment spacers right.

#ad

#ad

#ad


For the bottom mount, I did something similar. I shimmed the 3/4" diameter whole with a piece of round stock welded in, and drilled out to 1/2".

#ad


Here's everything painted up, and the front shocks and reservoirs mounted:

#ad

#ad

#ad

#ad

#ad


The front turned out great!!!! There is 12" of travel available, and at static height, the fronts are compressed about 5. 25". This is about perfect, as I wanted a static 60/40 split of available up-travel/down-travel.

More to come soon...

--Eric

 

[RSchwarzli]

Very nice and well done!



Nice job on the reinforced mount!

 

[Pascalray]

How is the ride? Does it meet your expectations? Would you have done anything differently?

 

[ENafziger]

Very nice and well done!

Nice job on the reinforced mount! <!-- google_ad_section_end --> <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Thanks!!!

How is the ride? Does it meet your expectations? Would you have done anything differently?

Well, the project is really only 1/4 of the way done. All I have completed so far is replacing the front shocks. I still have to install the front springs (Alcan), and install the rear shocks and rear leaf springs.

I'll try to work hard tomorrow and give you an update on Monday!

--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

I'll post a few pics to give a quick update. Life has been as hectic as ever, but I've been trying to stick with this project.

Saturday was very productive, although I'm in alot deeper than I planned... but isn't that how it always goes! :-laf

I started out just bolting on the new shocks. After discovering it wasn't going to be simply a bolt-on operation, things got a little out of hand. Before the day was over, I had removed the driveshaft, u-bolts, shocks, wiring harness from the cab back, emergency brake cables, the rear end, fuel tank, bumper, and bed... but that did make it easy to remove the springs hangers!!!

I'll let the pictures speak for themselves (mostly).

#ad


Factory springs with 6" of double stacked blocks... not the best setup!

#ad

#ad


Dad was blowing off the heads of the rivets, and I'm beating them out.

#ad


Spent a little time cleaning things up...

#ad

#ad


You can see here the homemade rear spring hanger. I used 3/8" plate for everything, welded with 6010 root pass, and 2 7018 passes. The shackle hanger is an 8" drop hanger for a chevy. I'll be reenforcing this before I bolt it up.

#ad


#ad



The new springs are MUCH longer. I moved the front hanger forward ~5", and the rear hanger back about the same.

#ad


To be continued...

--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

Quick question...

What is the reason behind the rear shocks leaning inboard so much? Is it simply to increase the effective valving, as the shock has to travel more than if it were vertical?

On the "newer" dodges, one rear shock angles back, and the other to the front. Is this to help prevent the rear-end from twisting under acceleration?

--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

There doesn't appear to be alot of interest in this thread, but I'll keep it updated somewhat in case others are interested in the future. That being said, I'll probably just hit the highlights rather than my typical step-by-step with pictures of everything along the way... not that I mind doing that, but it takes some time, and I may be better served spending my time wrenching than playing photographer if I'm the only one crazy enough to do this!

At any rate, I ended up using the 8" drop shackles shown above, but braced them up significantly. The complete rear suspension is bolted up now, and looks great!!!

Concerning the rear shocks... I would venture a guess that there is a reason that all manufacturers went to a fore/aft shock angle design, as opposed to the inboard lean found on these 1st gens. As such, I think I'm going to take the opportunity to remake mounts to incorporate the fore/aft design. If nothing else, I believe I can make better use of the shock travel, and combat axle wrap more effectively.

I think I'm going to do a u-bolt flip on the rear as well, since I'll be able to clean things up a little, gain ground clearance, and utilize some "round" u-bolts I already have laying around. I'm thinking of making a bump stop pad off of the top u-bolt plate as well for some DYSKO bumps.

I also purchased a Bilstein 7100 series steering stabilizer from Carli, that I've made some custom brackets for to retrofit onto the Dana 60.

I'll try to take a few pics and post up later...

--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

Few quick pics of the progress.

Shackles welded up and installed with the homemade rear hangers:

#ad


No, the welds aren't the prettiest. Normally Dad does most of the welding, but he was gone for the weekend. For the amount of experience I have, they turned out reasonably well

#ad


I decided to go ahead and gut the interior and fix the soft floor pans.

#ad


Driver's side was the worst:

#ad


I sold the wheels and tires last night, so I'm on the hunt for some new ones! I'd like to go with some KMC Enduro wheels with Toyo MT 315/75/16, but both seem to be backordered.

--Eric

 

[Grey Wolf]

Eric your making good progress please keep us informed

 

[PToombs]

Eric, that's not a soft floor! A soft floor is one with a 6" x 14" hole in it, like mine was! Looks good so far, keep up the good work.

 

["Mad Max"]

Longer leaf rear springs are a simple and cheap way to both improve the ride and maintain the strength, and you gain some nice flex when/if the time comes.

Check out reply #59 on one of my customers' rigs - using ProComp 13511 56" springs and a bit of voodoo (fabrication) -



'Paddy's Wagon' (... dyno vids... )



- Sam

 

[ENafziger]

Hey Sam!!!

Great build thread you have going there!! I can't wait to see that rig in action!

The springs I used on the rear are ~62" straight across eye-to-eye for reference. They are HUGE and should ride great! The 8" shackle should provide for plenty of swing as well.

--Eric

 

[ENafziger]

It's been a few weeks since I've updated things.

I got the custom Alcan front leaf springs installed with the longer shackle hangers I made. I ended up taking the second leaf out of the Alcan pack after calculating spring rates and seeing how the back end turned out. I think I'm going to shoot for a 4. 5" - 5" lift and run 315/75/16 Toyos.

I got a little distracted fixing the floor pans, and one thing led to another. I ended up installing carpet on the back wall, a couple 10" Audiobahn speaker boxes, some 4x10 component speakers in the rear, Infinity Perfect 6. 5 component set in the front doors, external crossovers on everything, a couple kenwood amps, and an equalizer. I used some Rattle Trap Fat Mat on the back wall, floor, kick panels, and inner and outer door skins. Then I finished it off with new padding and a new rubber floor.

#ad

#ad

#ad

#ad

#ad


I ended up having to watch Ely for awhile, so I explained how to do a few things to her, and put her to work!

#ad


#ad


#ad


--Eric

 

[SRath]

These 1st gens being so much like the 73 - 87 Chevys (88-91 crewcabs, blazers, and 'burbs, too) with leaf springs all the way around, I can attest to having had excellent results by simply going to Skyjacker Softride leaf springs and Rancho RS9000 shocks all the way around. No blocks anywhere, and I only needed 2 1/2" lift to easily clear 35" BFG's on my crewcab 1-ton srw.

The ride is extremely nice; much, much nicer than my '96 Dodge. I also installed Firestone air bags in the rear and can still handle the heaviest of loads with ease without sacrificing ride by simply adding a little air.

It is important, imo, to make sure you add greaseable shackle and spring eye bolts and poly bushings so the suspension can flex with ease.

 

[ENafziger]

It is important, imo, to make sure you add greaseable shackle and spring eye bolts and poly bushings so the suspension can flex with ease. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Good point! I've found that the Energy Suspension poly grease is the best stuff money can buy in this regard. It is by far the stickiest grease I've ever seen!!!

The ride is extremely nice; much, much nicer than my '96 Dodge. I also installed Firestone air bags in the rear and can still handle the heaviest of loads with ease without sacrificing ride by simply adding a little air.

I've had the RS9000s too, and liked them at the time. Hopefully this will be even better with a true reservoir shock and a custom valving profile designed for ride quality.

I would like to put air bags on at some point, but I haven't found anything that will allow over 12" of travel. Do you know of anything? With the custom setup in the rear, I anticipate needing at least a 16" - 18" travel bag to keep from ripping it apart on extension.

--Eric

 

[SRath]

Eric,
What I considered doing at the time to increase flex and travel without destroying the air bags from over extension was to build a sleeved upper mount for them. One that could telescope for more extension but otherwise be capable of holding the full load when carrying heavy. I did make my own brackets for the air bags since the supplied ones were too short (mine are much more H. D. , too) and I did install a front swaybar quick-disconnect.

I was looking to gain several more inches of flex and extension, but not 16"-18". The truth, I realized, was that Iowa offers few opportunities for rock crawling and a crew cab 1-ton would not be the ideal choice if it did.

Just the Soft-Ride system with greaseable poly bushings and RS9000s (and the disconnect actually seemed to allow better manners even when connected; probably because it corrected the sway bar geometry for the mild lift) all combined with the long wheelbase to greatly increase flex over stock, as well as make huge ride improvements.

I'm sure the telescoping upper mount idea could work, but you need to keep them from corroding and binding and you need the space to mount them and a very secure frame mount/reinforcing bracket. Very do-able, but there may be other options such as looking into using long travel larger airbags like semi tractors and trailers use. They come in all shapes and sizes. Many of those have internal telescoping designs.

Scott