Improving Tow Capabuilty

[DRyder]

Sir's/ Ma 'am's,



I have had my '04 2500 for 6 years now and have utilized it to pull my family travel trailer around Alaska. I recently outgrew the trailer and was astonished to find that the trailer size I want reaches the maximum GVWR easily. According to my current rig configuration I can only tow 9000 lbs per dodge ram. info 2004 RAM Pickup Payload and Towing Charts ,compared to the 2011 2500's that can pull 13000 lbs plus.



So here is the root question, can a 2004 dodge ram 5. 9L 305 motor, drive train, and chassis be upgraded with the plethora of after market parts to attain or surpass this GVWR? I would fathom a guess to say upgrades to the engine are a must along with an upgraded transmission and in my case torque converter. But how about the suspension, brakes, and so forth? Any input would be much appreciated! Thanks in advance,



Dave

 

[Bob Cochran]

No you cannot do anything to increase your GVWR unfortunately. This has been cussed and discussed in TDR a lot. You might try a search you will find a ton of information.

 

[goodguys75]

if you want too spend so much on all those upgrades... might be better to buy a bigger truck... ... plus no matter how much you do, you truck can legally tow so much... ... as far as i know... I did airbags ... good lluck on your ventur

 

[ETavernier]

DRyder,

To increase the towing capacity you would need to upgrade the axles and brakes to carry/stop the additional weight. I would think that the costs to do it properly would exceed the costs of trading up to a newer truck that is capable...

Eddie

 

[jelag]

I used to tow a 22K lb trailer with a 04 Dually and frankly, we did it for 250K miles before we bought a larger truck and used the 04 for in town service... . I just sold that truck with a little under 400K miles... we did destroy a transmission, and ended up with a very heavy duty clutch... . but all in all it went well if you were careful... with the exhaust brake and air bags and hydraulic brakes on the trailer all was well.....

I know have a 05 Dually that we tow a 15K lb 5er with... we ended up with air bags on both trucks mentioned to keep them level as the stock springs weren't up to the task so the head lights would work at night... the 05 now has over 100K... and we've never felt we were out of the safety limits...

What surprised us was that the 04 had a DOT # and commercial plates and the driver had a CDL, and the combined weight was never questioned in at least 6 states and 2 Canadian provinces...

What I'd do to your 04 is add an exhaust brake and the lock up kit for the transmission, air bags to level the truck, plus an additional transmission cooler and I'd go for it... . If your a safe and sane driver, you truck will do the 13K trailer... If your a wild as* crazy driver who has to go 60 up the hills and down them. . than your 2500 won't do it for you... but you've got plenty of truck compared to my example of what we did to our 04 when we had it...

Hope this helps answer your question...

 

[NIsaacs]

Dave, either you are confused or you are confusing me. Your truck is rated for 9,000 GVW and 20,000 GCW. You mention your truck can tow 9,000 lbs and a new truck can tow 13,000 lbs. As long as you get the hitch weight right to not exceed your trucks 9,000 GVW, you can tow a 13000 lb trailer per the tow chart.



Nick

 

[HBarlow]

Nick clarified the issue in his post above.

The weight you have to be careful not to exceed is your rear axle's gross axle weight rating and combined rear tire rating.

I too would add an exhaust brake but you'll have to modify your transmission to make it capable of handling the deceleration forces created by the exhaust brake.

 

[macdaddy]

Dave... .



13K?

The motor and trans in it's stock configuration will work fine. Turn the motor up, and youll run into transmission reliability issues.



I towed 13. 8K with a 99 215/420 47RE 4:10. 1's stock motor for over 80K miles. The trick is to be patient on the grades. The minute I installed an Edge EZ the transmission was toast.



I would leave the truck stock and perform good "seat of the pants" driving habits like letting off for each transmission shift, and TC lockup. I also would get a run at the grades in OD and as soon as the TC would unlock I would just go to 3rd allowing the TC to lock back up.



Now I had 4:10. 1's so 3rd with the TC locked up would only be around 50 MPH for the motor to be in the sweet spot. It worked fine and your will too.



Mac

 

[MChrist]

I heard somewhere that you can get a truck "re-certified" at a different gvwr. It was explained to me that, (in my case), I could get the 3500 rear springs to replace my 2500 rear springs. A Dodge dealer would have to install it to be Kosher, then it could be re-certified as a one ton (3500). Dealer verified that the axles, brakes, front coils, tires/wheels are the same between the 2500/3500, and the only difference was the extra spring leaf on the rear.
However, I've NEVER heard of this actually being done, let alone being accurate. Swapping the springs is no big deal, but maybe re-certifying is a cost prohibitive venture, if it's even true. I never pursued it, because I just don't care enough.
Maybe something to check into... if the info I just gave you isn't correct, please let me know.

 

[HBarlow]

I heard somewhere that you can get a truck "re-certified" at a different gvwr. It was explained to me that, (in my case), I could get the 3500 rear springs to replace my 2500 rear springs. A Dodge dealer would have to install it to be Kosher, then it could be re-certified as a one ton (3500). Dealer verified that the axles, brakes, front coils, tires/wheels are the same between the 2500/3500, and the only difference was the extra spring leaf on the rear.
However, I've NEVER heard of this actually being done, let alone being accurate. Swapping the springs is no big deal, but maybe re-certifying is a cost prohibitive venture, if it's even true. I never pursued it, because I just don't care enough.
Maybe something to check into... if the info I just gave you isn't correct, please let me know.

Recertified . . . by who or what entity?

Chrysler Corporation or Dodge certified it. It's pretty certain Chrysler and Dodge aren't going to recertify it.

Many dealers can't even be trusted with an honest purchase transaction or reliable service work. I can't imagine anyone is going to accept a dealer's word as certifying something different.

I don't see how it could be done.

 

[NIsaacs]

It can be done, however I have no clue what the requirements are or by who or what.



In '95 my brother bought a new F450 with a 19' rollback wrecker bed from an up-fitter that builds them. The only difference I could see was the frame was extended. Factory Ford GVW was 14,500, the builder changed it to 15,000 GVW. Since most wreckers are certified by the state police I would guess it was legal, however it's empty weight is 12,500 so he is overweight every time he hauls anything but a motorcycle



Nick

 

[Prairie Dog]

I wonder why your towing capacity is only 9k? I have the same eng with a 13,700 rating.
Was the auto rated that much lower?

 

[CUMMINZ]

DR,



I had an 04. 5 quad cab 4x4 that I towed my first fifth wheel. It was a 29' Sprinter. The truck did very well. We upgraded to a 36' Cedar Creek. I had a spring shop add 2 full length rear leaf springs and I added a HD rear sway bar. The truck handled the weight as well as my later 06 dually but your immediate concern is your tires. Unfortunatly you can't hardly purchase single rear wheel tires to do all jobs safe. Unless you go to a 19. 5" set of wheels and tires. We had to make an emergency manuver to miss a dumpbutt dump truck driver at 50mph on I-24 north of Nashville. When we got stopped the first thing out of my wife's mouth was a dually was in our near future. Your model is a tuff truck but you will have to drive very conservatively.

 

[MChrist]

Harvey, it's my understanding that by having Dodge install one ton springs onto a three quarter ton truck, and thus having the exact same suspension components as a one ton, they could then re-certify the truck as a one ton.
That's what I heard, and it seems to make sense. I never verified this, but I'll do some searching.

 

[AH64ID]

There is no way to change a GVWR, but if you are wanting to interpolate ratings then you can determine what you can do without being unsafe.



Here is what Dodge rates your truck at.

Dodge Towing Guide - By Vehicle Results



I wasn't sure if you were 2wd or 4wd, or what your axle ratio is.



But here is the bottom line on what your truck can do.



The frame is the same on a 2500 and 3500 DRW, so your good there.



The axles are rated the same (minor differences on a DRW, but not in the ratings), so your good.



Brakes are the same, so your good.



For the suspension I highly reccommend a set of rear-air bags, should be all you need.



What you have to look at now is your GAWR and Tire ratings not being exceeded. Your tires are the same as a 3500 SRW, and a 2010 SRW truck at 3195 lbs per tire. Thats also all the OEM rims are rated for, so without a different tire/wheel combo thats where you will sit.



Hit the scales and see what your truck weighs loaded like the truck is loaded for camping, then you know what kind of room you have for tounge weight. You then can shop for a larger trailer based on pin/tounge weight and know what you can and can't do. This will give you a lot heavier option than what Dodge says.



The biggest difference in your trucks rating and the rating of an 07 5. 9 with the same cab config is hp, there are no hard parts differences that make it "tougher". 20 hp and 55 ft/lbs of tq are good for an additional 3K in tow rating, then look at a 3500 SRW (only difference is rear overloads that are useless with less than 3K in the bed) and its nearly 6K more pounds of tow rating than your 04. So a little hp, and some rear bags and you have all the rest of the parts to tow at the 325 HO's 3500 SRW ratings.



So I would look at a Smarty Jr, gauges, a few small trans upgrades for durability/longevity, air bags, and an exhaust brake and call it good. Then scale it and see what you can hold.



But honestly, if you don't mind being a little slower than just get some airbags and hit the scales to see where your at. If you get a larger trailer and want to get a little more power, or stop a little better then start upgrading.

Harvey, it's my understanding that by having Dodge install one ton springs onto a three quarter ton truck, and thus having the exact same suspension components as a one ton, they could then re-certify the truck as a one ton.

That's what I heard, and it seems to make sense. I never verified this, but I'll do some searching.

This sounds good in planning, but you wont be able to get re-certified.



Also the only difference (3rd gen) is a set of overloads that will take welding to install the perchs. Air bags are easier and actually do a lot more. The overloads are pretty useless on a SRW, your at the GAWR about the same time they start helping.

 

[MChrist]

I've been scouring the Internet trying to find concrete info on what I said earlier, to no avail. Lots of people mention it, but nothing I can hang my hat on.
However, it does make sense that if the only difference between 2500 and 3500 is a spring change and a perch for the overload, with everything else being equal (tires, wheels, brakes, axles... ) that it could be done.
Especially if all work was performed at a Dodge dealer.

 

[AH64ID]

I've been scouring the Internet trying to find concrete info on what I said earlier, to no avail. Lots of people mention it, but nothing I can hang my hat on.

However, it does make sense that if the only difference between 2500 and 3500 is a spring change and a perch for the overload, with everything else being equal (tires, wheels, brakes, axles... ) that it could be done.

Especially if all work was performed at a Dodge dealer.

They would have to recode the VIN in the DMV system, and I am not sure thats possible.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey, it's my understanding that by having Dodge install one ton springs onto a three quarter ton truck, and thus having the exact same suspension components as a one ton, they could then re-certify the truck as a one ton.
That's what I heard, and it seems to make sense. I never verified this, but I'll do some searching.

If the issue is simply upgrading the truck to handle greater load, changing out or simply adding leaves to the rear springs along with changing wheels and tires to 19. 5" with greater load carrying capacity would do it.

If the issue is altering what the manufacturer certified it for, only the manufacturer can recertify it. We all know "that ain't gonna happen. "

It's the "they" in "they could then re-certify" where your theory runs off the tracks.

A letter to your state's department of public safety, department of motor vehicles or whatever the equivalent is in your state inquiring if you can have your truck recertified to carry more weight should clarify the issue. I'd bet the answer is contained in state laws governing registration and operation of motor vehicles in your state.

When you say, "it is my understanding" what is the source of that information?

I really don't think it can be done.

The entire world is full of mis-information, misunderstandings, false statements, and wrong beliefs. Lots of it is related to our beloved diesel powered light trucks. Wonder how many dummies still believe that "Furd owns Cummings?"

 

[HBarlow]

I've been scouring the Internet trying to find concrete info on what I said earlier, to no avail. Lots of people mention it, but nothing I can hang my hat on.
However, it does make sense that if the only difference between 2500 and 3500 is a spring change and a perch for the overload, with everything else being equal (tires, wheels, brakes, axles... ) that it could be done.
Especially if all work was performed at a Dodge dealer.

Sorry, I'm not persuaded. Dealer staffs usually know less than we do about our trucks. They don't have any idea if the frame is differenet or what other components might be upgraded to make a Ram 2500 a Ram 3500. We consumers believe we know by looking under the trucks and looking for things that look different but we don't KNOW.

I don't understand why members purchase Ram 2500s then decide to haul or tow loads that exceed their rated capacity.

It has always made a lot more sense to me to buy the truck with maximum capability and avoid issues later.

 

[MChrist]

In the used truck market, 2500s are much more readily available than 3500s in a shortbed, quad cab. At the time I bought it, I was only trying to replace our original tow vehicle ('96 Tahoe). As things change, I found the need to use it for work, also. I'm fairly sure this is the predicament most people find themselves in. Now, had it been primarily a work truck, I (like you and most others) would have chosen a 3500-5500.
The original poster is simply trying to improve his trucks towing capability. That breaks down to two camps: legal capability vs truck capability.
If you are not concerned with going over what your truck is recommended to pull/tow/weigh... I would simply install air bags like the ones in my signature. I can hook up a trailer with an 1800# tongue weight to my hitch and hit a button to level the truck. The truck sits level, my tires are rated to tow this trailer, etc. I wouldn't necessarily want to pull the Grapevine Pass, or make hard, sharp turn with this trailer in tow, but this truck would handle the load as well or better than an equally configured 3500. To really feel safe, I would prefer a dually, but since my truck isn't, I'll make due with what I have.
Actually, regarding the Grapevine, if my truck had an exhaust brake, I would give it a shot. .
Legally, you are bound by the weight police. Good luck with getting a straight answer, though. I just go and don't drive like a moron. . and never had a problem. I know that's not the right answer, but it's the truth... ... sorry!