Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) In the market for a new clutch...

[Noseridorr]

Well the end is near for my stock clutch, not a surprise given my mods. I have narrowed down the potential replacements to either Southbend or one of Mitchell's clutches. Here is what I am looking for in a clutch

1. Near stock pedal pressure

2. Durability

3. Not too grabby

4. Top notch quality

I do not pull sleds, but want a clutch that can withstand intense hotrodding, running in sand, and towing. My bombs are a work in progress and will eventually be getting the PDR HX-40, Cam, 0 plate, etc... Anyhow I would rather pay for a clutch that can hold all of this once up front, than have to buy a second clutch a year down the road. Buying one Mitchell pulling clutch is better than two Con OFE's. How is the chatter on the dual disc? What components are included with the Mitchell pulling clutch, does it have everything I need so I can just drop mine and put this back in? Please don't turn this thread into a ******* match between manufacturers/members these get tiring to read real quick. Thanks for your opinions, Jason

p. s. who can send me Brandon's phone number?

 

[RHARVEY]

Sounds like its a good recipe for the 13" upgrade of the Con FE. I have the Con OFE (13")which will handle 400 hp(I have been told). Straight forward install... all parts included and can't beat customer service...

Top notch product and top notch customer service. .



Rick

 

[R.ebel]

Clutches

I don't have any first hand experience with the Mitchell pulling clutch but I'd be willing to bet that you would find it to be a little grabby, not a slam on their clutches but just the nature of a pulling clutch.



I recently upgraded from a Centerforce to a Southbend 13" con OFE. So far the Southbend has been working great, I'm at 437HP at the wheels. The Southbend was a little grabby at first but has smoothed out as I got a few miles on it



The Centerforce was not slipping but had developed a vibration. Upon close examination after removal revealed that the weights that Centerforce uses on the pressure plate to increase the clamp force had shifted causing the vibration.

 

[cmonroe]

Peter from South Bend Clutch can also build a clutch that is even better than the OF's. But if you are not over 500hp or pulling sleds the OF should hold just fine. But if you are over 500hp you may need to ask him for the new and IMPROVED South Bend Clutch. This clutch is a monster! Drag racing in 4 wheel drive in the 13's hitting 3rd and 4th gear shifts lights the tires up. And yes I sled pull with it too. Oh and yea It is well over 500hp. I'm very impressed with this new clutch.

 

[Briar Hopper]

Rebel, I've driven the Mitchell clutches. I can tell you firsthand, they are the best clutches, are very streetable, and not grabby at all. They are a wee bit complicated to install, precision and care is necessary. The end result is well worth it.

I'm a dealer/ installer for them, so naturally I may be biased in favor of them.

But I also love South Bend Clutches. I have quite a bit of experience with them, and can sleep easy at night knowing I'm giving my customers an affordable clutch that will keep them happy.

Buy the clutch to fit what you do with the truck, and you'll be satisified. Clutches are not a one-size-fits-all type of thing.

At least we have a choice now. Two years ago, all we had was McLeod, or Donnelly modified Sachs. The current clutches put those two to shame, they're practically in the same class now as a CenterForce.

 

[RHARVEY]

From personal experience... buy quality the first time. . plan ahead. . and have it laying there waiting on you. I waited toooooo long and had to get a clutch in to get it back on the road... .

:{ :{ :{



That clutch was out of the truck twice because of problems with the other parts(throw bearing, pilot bearing). . Now after all that stuff. . the 13" SBC Con OFE is there to stay.



Whether its the Mitchell or SBC... spend the green up front and do it right the first time...



I think that was more than my $. 02 worth



Rick

 

[Noseridorr]

Thanks for all the replies, I am still deciding and will be buying at the first of next week. I have called and talked to EE and am now going to call Southbend. Briar Hopper, can you tell me if the pulling clutch has a lot or a little chatter? Can someone please give me Brandon Fenley's phone number? Thanks, Jason Orr

 

[Got Smoke?]

Just so you know the Mitchell's also have a single disc version of their pulling clutch that cost's considerably less than the dual disc.



Ask Briar Hopper about it, he can get you the cost's.

 

[Brandon]

209-578-1850



I am sick and tired of people saying eep clutch is grabby, please drive one before you make judgement



I have ran all the good ones except the jd sachs, i cant comment on that one



sbc

eep

jvd

very happy with all these clutches

not nessecarily in that order it depends on application

 

[drawson]

I am a die heart South Bend Clutch fan. Peter has taken care of me and will take care of you.

The set up you are talking about going to I have already and the 13" Con OFE is SUPER, it holds and has a very well built center section. It is slightly grabby empty but with a load on it it is smooth!!!!! Now if I could only find a tire that would hold like this clutch I'd be happy.



Call and talk with Peter he won't steer you a stray.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I'm still using a slightly revised version of the Sachs in my Ram. 3800 lb. pressure plate, brass ceramic pucks. It holds the power, is a bit grabby but have used this newest version on the street daily for over a year and a half. As noted above, when my clutch man made a few of the modified Sachs clutches, there wasn't much available, and I wanted something that would hold a lot more power than the Centerforce. Holding the power is not the same as being able to grab at a power level while the slutch is being slipped. The latter is more difficult to attain, and usually involves a loss of some streetability. The 3800 lb. Sachs is holding about 80% greater power and torque than the Centerforce did for me, long-term and reliably.



Anything can be destroyed, and some clutches are better than others for specific applications. Sled pulling is hard on a clutch and it seems EE has one that lasts for that use.



Here is what Gene Mohney posted regarding the modified Sachs clutch he used (he had an earlier version):



____________________________________________

A little update:



After 25,000 miles, extreme heat and abuse sledpulling, the ONLY thing left in my clutch assembly that was still perfect,like new, mint condition, WAS MITCHELL'S ROLLER PILOT BEARING.





'nough said.



Gene

Gene

NRA Member

1997 4x4 ex-cab 5spd 300+HP CUMMINS Dodge! WANTED:wrecked Dodges

AMSOIL Wholesale Distributor www.awdist.com

______________________________________________



It's hard to come up with a fully streetable clutch that will take "extreme heat and abuse" for 25,000 miles. Gene MELTED the brass pucks on the Sachs clutch. Brass melts, depending on alloy, between 1400 and 1800 degrees. That sure is getting the clutch hot.



I hope the EE clutch works well for Gene and for Tom (Briar Hopper).

 

[Briar Hopper]

I haven't sled pulled with my Sachs clutch, Joe. Nor have I abused it. I also haven't decided that I'm going with a Mitchell clutch. (I sell & install them) I have to decide what I'm going to use the truck for, first. Once I make up my mind, I'll know what clutch to put in it.

Thank you for your well wishes, however.

I'm not pleased that the extreme pressure of the Sachs killed my slave cylinder. I was without a truck for a week, while prioritizing customers' trucks at my shop. I finally got it fixed by midnight last night, after working on three other trucks that day. The clutch also grabbed and stalled the engine on a hill, in front of the grandstands at the Carlisle, KY pulls 2 weeks ago. Not a good testimonial / demonstration for a shop specializing in performance transmissions.

It does hold the power, and it has lasted. I don't feel misled about my purchase of the clutch, as Gene seems to be.

It has suited my purposes,and I thank you for making it possible for us to buy them way back when. But now I find I need something else.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Tom, I understand and respect your choices. The Sachs is not for everyone, but as you stated, it was about all there was a few years ago, and it still works.



I am a bit surprised that you had slave cylinder trouble. I am still on my original, stock clutch cylinders/line. Your older design Sachs has 3600 lb pressure and the pedal feel is noticeably lighter with it than with the 3800 I have used for the last couple years. Then, some cylinders have failed even with stock clutches, so who knows. I have been running 3400-3800 lb pressure for about 100,000 miles on the stock cylinder assembly, so sometimes Dodge gives us a good one



It takes practice to drive smoothly with the reworked Sachs clutch. I still don't have it down completely and occasionally it feels like I ran over a couple medium sized rocks when taking off. The hood jumps up like a semi taking off. A former list member has a new style with a ferramic type button on it and he will report to me soon on how it works. I'm letting someone else be the guinea pig this time Since we have baby semi's, might as well have the kind of friction facing they use

 

[DarrellB]

Me next

Briar,



Me Next, Me Next





Darrell

 

[DSteinel]

My Truck started out with the Mcleod dual disk STREET clutch, held my hp very well(EE perf. inj. and a torque inhancer) Put 35000 lbs on and with the box on high I couldn't slip it. Very easy on the left leg, I also plow snow with it. Since I started pulling this truck I upgraded to EE pulling clutch, Took a couple of days to get used to it, Towes a trailer very nicely and is not grabby at all now. In my opinion you cant go wrong with a Mitchell clutch.

 

[WadePatton]

13" er what?

I know I should call SBC, but they ain't open right now.



I dearly love the way the stock clutch feels, but unfortunately it ain't a gonna put the power down when I start bombing.



I tow occasionally and race UPHILL at every opportunity. I won't be pulling sleds with this truck. And my first stage bombs won't get me to 400, but the second stage very well might.



So from the choices at SBC, do I really need a 400+ clutch or the 13" upgrade? I have the 6sp with the little shaft. Will a 13" drive better than a 400+ leetle clutch?

 

[thepitts]

Yet another

Joe you forgot about this quote from Gene



"I would reccommend the DRE for street driving- if I could. It is just plain annoying on the street.

Basically, in my opinion, it does nothing well.



If you want a grabby, shuddering, clutch that will not hold any type of REAL power or playing, by all means, get one.



And start saving for your next one, because you will need it.



Gene"



Just making sure all the info is out there.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

After Gene got his clutch, my clutch man developed a version that holds a lot better but Gene wasn't willing to upgrade. Sure, the version I am using now is somewhat grabby, but it is documented to hold a dyno'ed 633 hp. Real hp, not someone's guesswork based on smoke or dragging around a weight on a dirt track. Others and I drive with it every day.



As far as getting real information and fair assessments, I look to other sources. Consider how the Sachs was intended only as a street clutch before today's clutches were available, and how it lasted pretty well under admittedly extreme abuse. I feel it is important to balance performance against usage.



For a very positive example, look at how Kwikkurt abused the South Bend ferramic at May Madness sled pulling--it sparked all the way from slipping it, then he drag raced it, then drove home with his 461. 9 hp. Now that is darn good clutch performance in competition--from a street clutch. Where are the posts about the rattling, etc. of the pulling dual disk clutch, or how an unsprung hub is hard on the transmission? Peter @ South Bend recently developed an improved dual disk clutch with steel parts. Now that the pulling assn. is prohibiting cast iron, what will happen to those oh-so-favored dual disk clutches with cast iron pressure rings?



I don't care where anyone goes for a clutch, its your truck and money. Unfortunately, it is hard to get honest and complete reports on cost, reliability, etc. It looks to me that many folks with uprated horsepower levels are very well served by South Bend. Good products, good service and warranty.



By the way, I don't use anything from South Bend and they have given me nothing. I am basing my assessment on reports from others, and watching their products at work at May Madness.

 

[thepitts]

Update

Your updated clutch failed at the Drag strip yesterday, in a stock truck. Maybe that is why



" After Gene got his clutch, my clutch man developed a version that holds a lot better but Gene wasn't willing to upgrade. "



As far as the cast iron pressure plate system , I am sure it will just develop into a better system than they have now. As you say your clutch has done.



There is a big difference between running on a dyno and running on the track, be it dirt or asphalt. And yes I have done all three in my opinion the dyno does not give you real world taste of how the truck is running.



I my self try not bash other vendors and only talk about what I know about to be fact.



Is there a waiting list for your clutch?



As always your mileage may vary

 

[Six_Man_Diesel]

I'm running Donnelly's Sachs clutch, very rough and shuddering on the take-offs, but hasn't slipped a lick. It takes some getting used to, thats for sure, better not have anything laying on the dash when you take off, cause it will for sure hit the floorboard in no time. I've tried slipping it, but haven't had any success so far, I would say I am pleased with it all around. I can make a better judgement on it when I see how long it lasts.