Increasing HP & Torque (bombing)

[inarush76]

trans upgrades

Dave, I am the DTT installer/dealer in the Texas area. I am in the Dallas area and would be glad to answer any questions you may have. In the Dallas area we have a club that meets every second Saturday of the month and have breakfast . I have installed quite a number of DTT converters and valvebodies in the club and you could ride in one and judge for yourself. You won't go wrong with DTT.



James Northum

Dtt installer/dealer/Bill K. approved builder

 

[SteveAZ]

Bombing & the cruise control surge

Okay speaking of lie's to all the computers, I have read awhile back that some mods, that make a ton of power will then cause your cruise control to surge.



Is that still the case? and if so, what mods cause that and what can you do about it?

 

[Bill Kondolay]

Steve,



I guess i missed that lie, when you add bigger injectors and fueling boxes they will definately cause surging while the cruise control is activated, how much surging depends on how much power you take the power level to.



On my last trip to Texas we ran the supermentals in my dodge, and we were able to use the cruise control with literally no surging. Normally the bigger the injector the more surging you have, but we were using the new comp box, the comp box has the ability to de-fuel, basically speaking we used the comp to turn the super mental injectors almost back to factory injectors for the trip.



Now, i dont know who actually developed the software for this box but i think Brett & Taylor have the best drivablility in their comp box .



Guys will always argue which box has the most power but thats not what we are talking about .



As far as i am aware of , this is the only box available that has the ability to de-fuel and it becomes an important cosideration when you guys are choosing to put big injectors in your Rams and do a lot of highway driving where cruise control is wanted.

 

[KatDiesel]

Originally posted by Bill Kondolay

Now, i dont know who actually developed the software for this box but i think Brett & Taylor have the best drivablility in their comp box .

Gotta love'em! I know I love my COMP box... ..... Been doing business with them since May of 2000 back when the first PowerEdge was being released. They are always working on something new... ..... on my way to May Madness next year I am going to have to make a pitstop in Utah.



My DDIII's + COMP in Level I Subleve III produces no surging with cruise on.



Bill will you be attending May Madness next year?

 

[BRoth]

Why

Why do they surge? The governor will detect this and correct it, unless the fuel supply is a problem. I know we open the banjo fittings but there should be no surge under a constant load.



Is it possible that the speed sensor is having a problem with its signal.



The Edge competition box can be de-fueled as the EZ Pulse box will be.



We have tuning programs that can be flashed on to the PNP/VA that can have the fuel cut back for XXX injectors at low rpm and the timing adjusted!



Timing adjustments are important for alternate fuel boosters, keeping the engine cool under heavy power and improving fuel economy.

 

[RustyJC]

Re: Why

Originally posted by BRoth

Why do they surge? The governor will detect this and correct it, unless the fuel supply is a problem.

Brian,



By increasing the injector size, we've increased the amount of system response (i. e. , RPM change) for a given output signal. From a control systems perspective, over-response and the resultant "hunting" would call for a reduced "gain" setting in the cruise control system.



Barring this, the cruise control system will hunt. When it sees speed falling, it will send an output signal to increase fuel by X, but the bigger injectors will increase fuel by, say, 1. 5X, so the system overshoots (increases RPM too much). When the control system sees this, it will "chop" fuel by what it thinks is Y, but the bigger injectors will cut fuel 1. 5Y, so it undershoots (decreases RPM too much). This starts the cycle over again.



The problem, of course, is a failure to take a total systems approach. When one element of a system is changed, the effect on the overall system must be analyzed and corrective compensations must be made to optimize system performance once again.



Edit: The reason that the Edge Comp apparently helps this problem is that lowering its "fueling" rate effectively reduces the over-response problem, so when the cruise control system thinks it's making a change of "X" in the fueling, the lowered fuel rate on the Comp box produces an actual change closer to "X", even with the bigger injectors.



Rusty

 

[DEZLPWR]

Brian:

I called you guys the other day and spoke with Pat on this issue. . I have a Plug N Power and DDII's and I asked him if you guys could flash a "tuning program" into mine to work better with my injectors and he said no. Now I am confused. Why did he tell me that it cannot be done, and you are saying that it can?



Steve

 

[SteveAZ]

At this point, I do not intend on putting injectors greater that DD2's, that along with the VA, and yes I'll have to do some transmission mods.



For now keeping stock exhaust.



I just didn't want to sacrifice highway drivability with cruise control. So it sounds like what I intend to do shouldn't cause the "hunting" problem with the cruise.



One day perhaps I different fueling box like the PE, but overall I'm happy with what the VA does.

 

[BRoth]

Version 2

SCooke



The current PnP 2 (the secound version) has the ability to be reflashed. It also monitors the manifold pressure as well.



The earlier versions are preset programs, they work good for most applications. The new version also has a complete new board and container.





I am sure if our fellas mentioned that the Manifold sensor or what we call a boost fooler can be installed seperately.



The Boost fooler is avaialbe with a X hook as well if you have a 2001 which holds the w/g closed rather than using a orifice since it will have a hard line connecting to thw w/gate.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

bigger injectors will work fine with cruise control , i have DD3's with nothing else turned on . if i set cruise at 45 i will get the hunting , if i am on the highway and set it at 60 or greater , haven't tried less , there is no hunting . if i were to turn on my original poweredge then it will hunt .



kat your comp on level 1 is like just having the EZ with the jumper in the middle position , shouldn't cause a hunting problem .



i talked to DD about this when i was looking into injectors , they agreed , the only guys having problems were those trying to use cruise at 45mph . if you must use this level then maybe the comp with its defuel is the way to go .

 

[SteveAZ]

Cruise on at 45? 45 is merely a number that is quickly passed on the way up and again on the way down.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

yes steve , that is same for me ... but thats what DD told me was their biggest complaint from guys with DD3's ...



its funny that some people want plus 400HP to the ground, then they putt around town like an old lady and complain that the truck has lost its drivability ...

 

[superdave]

i really appreciate all the replies... i think i need to clarify something... i am not interested in spinning my tires or outrunning everyone else. . what my problem is: running at 2000 rpm (70 mph) with any kind of load, from 2000# trailer to a 12000# trailer, when i go up an incline i lose about 6 to 10 mph..... if i am doing 2100 or 2150 rpm (75 mph) i can maintain my speed with only losing about 2 or 3 mph... . i guess what i am looking for is to boost my hp and torque so i can maintain my speed up the little hills we have in East Texas as well as steeper ones in Arkansas and New Mexico... . on little hills i can stay in OD but lose speed... out of OD i can maintain speed but with much highter rpms..... i know the stock dodge auto will not handle much more torque than the 215HP engine i have now puts out... . that is why i also felt like i would need to boost the torque capacity of the transmission... i am not a mechanic or engineer or hot rod type guy. . i am an old guy... i just want to be able to keep up with traffic as i toddle around the roads..... if i have to spend 4 or 5 thousand bucks for this, i can sell mine and buy a new one with more torque and hp... so cost effectiveness is also important... . i guess this is confusing but it is what my problem is... thanks again for all the replies and i am checking them out... . i have a close buddy who has a little "black box" and has gone thru 2 transmissions in only 40000 miles... . warranty... . i dont want to have that kind of problems... thanks for any further input... i really do appreciate it all... ...

 

[Mopar-muscle]

dave you don't need a ton of HP to do what you want , but the trans upgrade is going to run a minimum of $2000 parts and labor , figure another $1000 for box and injectors . towing a steep grade in OD and 12k ain't gonna happen either , i think , i'm not up on the towing end , with over 400HP and 10k on the bumper i can see something not liking it behind the flywheel ????



i'll bet you buddy has a post electronics fueling box and drives with a heavy trailer , did nothing to upgrade the power handling of the stock trans .

 

[Archive]

Just want to jump in quick and say this has been a very good, very informative, and very civilized thread. Thanks.

 

[TxDieselKid]

there are hills in east texas???lol

Originally posted by superdave

i have a close buddy who has a little "black box" and has gone thru 2 transmissions in only 40000 miles... . warranty

Dave,

So did he have the box on the truck when he took it in? What is a good dealer to take the truck to in these here woods? I did NOT like Mike Perry here in Nacogdoches, and heard bad things about the dealer in Lufkin. Maybe I just need to head a little north.



AJB