Indecision: CTD, FPS, GMC-Duramax

[Art Newman]

I am new here.

I have owned a '92 W250 since new. Swapped the Getrag for a NV4500 4 yrs. ago. 168,000 mi. to date. I've operated Cummins engines in over the road trucks since the early 1960's.

I live in central WY and have used this truck for everything one could imagine, on and off the ranch, with care and maintenance, but not babying. I am sold on the engine.

I am considering a new truck. I believe that Dodge, Ford and Chev/GMC all have excellent rigs and engines.

I am disappointed in the smaller Crew Cab ( Quad ) of the Dodge, and I have the feeling that the Dodge truck body fit and finish is inferior to that of the competition.

To be honest, I'm impressed by the info on the new PS6. 0 and their new auto transmission, although a 6 spd would be my choice at this moment. Likewise for the Duramax and Allison combo. Chev/GMC has always put out an outstanding and tough 3/4 and 1T pickup.

I am brand loyal but practical. Your input will be appreciated.

Thanks

Art

 

[Snow man]

Art,are you buying an auto or standard? If an auto,I wouldnt even consider the Dodge unless you plan on spending 3K on the transmission,and voiding the warranty ,to bring it up to par with the others. Id buy the GM if getting an auto,only because its on its 3rd yr of production and the bugs are fixable,and rare,the duramax has proven itself,despite all the speculation about the aluminum heads. The Ford,well it may turn out great,but your taking a chance with it being so new. If your going with the 6 speed,then the dodge can compete,just not in all out acceleration,which isnt important anyway to most 6 speed owners.

 

[Art Newman]

Thanks, Snow Man.

I've never owned a pickup with an auto transmission but I'll have to say that the new Ford and Allison auto's hold an interest for me.

How important would the smaller CrewCab of the Dodge be to you ? Do you believe that the Dodge is on par with Ford/GM as far as quality control is concerned ?

I understand your concern about taking a wait and see attitude toward brand new engines, etc. However I believe that any of these trucks should be able to give a solid 10 yrs or more of service, as my current '92 has.

Guess I'm just not certain on whether there's a clear cut top dog.

Art

 

[Snow man]

Art,the cab being bigger is very important to me. I have 3 kids who are always in my truck,and its too small,my cousin has an 02 Dmax,let me tell you the cab is nice,very roomy. I am seriously considering the Dmax myself for my next truck for this very reason alone. The only reason i dont have a Dmax already is the crew cab is long,and I plow commercially,and dont want the truck to be real long,my 00 Ram is very agile in tight parking lots. I do not like the Allison auto behind the Dmax very much for empty/light loaded driving,its strong,and durable,but I do not tow real heavy,and dont like all the extra shifting it does. Drive one,its a great trans for towing . but it is very busy during normal driving,always shifting between gears. its like driving a 6 speed Dodge,not anything wrong with it,just the gear gaps are way too narrow unless towing heavy. I am just so used to the DTT modified auto that I am spoiled. If i was coming from a stoxk Dodge auto,the Allison is 10X better. when i test drove an 03 Ram, i was very disapointed in the power,I think my stock 215hp Ram had more power than the one I drove,there was zero response too,took forever for it to spool,and when it did,it hardly pulled at all,and what power it had was wasted by the transmission. After driving my cousins Dmax, I can tell you Dodge still has lots of work to do,the power isnt even close,and the transmission is out to lunch until it locks up. Go drive them,and let us know what you think,I cant wait to take a new 6. 0 PSD for a test drive,I want to see how well the ydid with that new transmission.

 

[jimnance]

A new man,



I posted this somewhere else, but I'll repeat it here. I've owned a total of four Dodge Cummins trucks. A '91, a '95, a 99, and now an '03. I never sold one because of a problem. I bought the new ones for the new features - O/D transmission in '95, Quad Cab in '99, and now the 4 door in '03. All together I have 400,000 miles in CTD's.



I can't comment much on Fords and GMC's having never owned one. I had a new Ford Explorer once, and three trannys and 36,000 miles later gave up on it. I have other friends that have very poor experience with Ford automatic transmissions in general. My friends with the new Duramax trucks like them a lot, but they are very big.



Since you put over 200,000 miles on your W-250 I assume you intend to keep your new truck for a while. The Cummins Diesel is the ONLY one of the three to be rated a true medium duty diesel by the government. That means it is rated for 300,000 miles whereas the Ford and Duramax are rated Light duty and only 150,000 miles. Your mileage may vary, but the 5. 9 diesel has been used in everything from buses to boats and pumps to pushers. It has a VERY good reliability record. The Duramax is still to young to claim that kind of dependability, and the Ford 6. 0 is brand new.



If comfort is your sole criteria then get the GMC. If an auto is important get the GMC. But if you like a manual transmission then get the Dodge with the H. O. engine and 6 speed transmission. It is a great comibination. Will be reliable as heck, get good fuel economy (relative to the others), and overall is a good value for the dollar.



I'm in love again after three prior marriages. I think that says something.

 

[D808]

Art,

We've owned our 2003 HO 6-speed for about a month now and I love it! It's better in all respects than the 1996 HO 5-speed that it replaced. If you are comparing Dodge, Ford and Chevy, check out their weights. The Dodge is almost a thousand pounds heavier than the Ford or Chevy! That extra weight probably explains why the Dodge is a tad slower in acceleration, but you're driving a lot more truck! Compare the other specs too. Especially the frame! Also, Dodge certainly offers the best warranty.

Some have complained that the 2003 HO's aren't as fast as the previous models. Well, I know mine is much quicker than the 1996 it replaced. And the '96 ran darn good!

If you're undecided, try them all. Don't rely on my recommendations or any one else's. Drive them all, check out the specs and you be the judge.

Federal Man

 

[Big MAK]

Seems like Ford is coming out with a completely new diesel engine every few years. Hmmm. Technology upgrades are one thing (Cummins Mechanical --> ISB --> Common Rail; all same basic block); but a new engine all the time? Doesn't say much for their design and dependability does it? If they were any good they wouldn't dump them for new engines every few years.



But as for the truck; I think the Fords have a great platform. I also think they started a dern good thing with the "Heavy Duty" designations ... . forced Dodge to finally beef up their brakes, frames, and suspensions. The brakes in my 2003 are downright awesome -- night and day from my 98. 5



As for Chevy; another great truck platform. But as for diesels; is there really any comparison to a real honest to goodness Cummins? Of-course; my bias is obvious but also well founded!



Best of Luck!

 

[krabman]

I looked pretty hard at all 3 myself. It seems to me that a lot of people have looked at the pickup.com article and decided the CTD is a weak slug. In reality I couldnt tell the difference in acceleration sitting in the cab and driving any of the sticks. They all have plenty of power for my needs. More is readily availible no matter which one I bought. Conversely no matter which truck or how much power it had to start with I would upgrade it anyways. Its just my nature. I also didnt really see any difference in quality. Fit and finish was good on all of them butI could see things where I thought they cheaped out on all of them as well. In the end I made my choice mostly because of things that were subjective. I couldnt get comfortable in the Chevy's seat, the Ford and Dodge were both much better for my taste. I love the Dodge's looks, I like the Chevy, I hate the looks of the Ford. I love the sound of the cummins, am indifferent to the sound of the Ford or Chevy. I like having four doors but being less than a crew cab. Thats keep the groceries dry and people overflow area to me. Those that find it to cramped are welcome to walk. On the other hand if they wanna ride along then they have their own door to climb in. I say try em all and by the one that talks to you. Thats the right truck.

 

[Cummins Cowboy]

In regards to your question about dodge not haveing good fit and finish. I think Dodge is way ahead of GM in the fit and finish area. Every chevy i have been around the door clanks when it shuts and the interior falls apart, ie knobs and handles. i do think ford does put together a stout truck, I even was tempted to buy my brother in laws 99 PSD but i went over to the ford site and did a little reading. I learned about knock and cackle and how a HEUI injector works and decided to stay true to the blue C. Some folks have good or bad luck with a particular brand. I think it all comes down to weather or not you get a good one or not. For me the bad ones have all been chevies.

 

[Snow man]

Wierd,my 91,and 89GMCs doors shut more soldily than my 00 Rams. The rams doors have been adjusted twice in 3 yrs and 65K miles,the 91 GMc are origianl at 100K and dont sag. The GMs have twice the fit and finish IMO. If you work o n these thinfs much you;ll also noitce you need both metric and american tools dropping a trans one minute you need a 15mm,next you need a 5/8" whats with that ,DC could decide if they wanteds metric or american fasteners, so they iused both?

 

[jimnance]

You could compare it to a 1957 Chevy too. Guess what, the '57 Chevy doors probably still close solidly.



In my three previous CTD's I never had to adjust a door. I think I only had a front end aligned once in 400K miles on the three trucks.



Adjsuted valves every 50K, changed fuel filters and transmission oil every 25K, and engine oil/filter every 5K with Delo.



That's all I did and they ran and ran.



One day went to the quarry for some gravel in my '95 CTD. I kept waving and the loader kept loading 'till I could see the tires and suspension sag some. Not bad. Scaled out with 3. 5 tons of gravel. Only problem was brakes. None of my prior CTD's had great brakes. The front and rear disks on my '03 seem to have solved that.



The guy at the scales was amazed, said the last guy with that much in a Chevy busted his axle before he got out of the yard.

 

[Art Newman]

I want to thank all who responded to my questions about Ford Dodge and GM. I appreciate every response and learned a lot.

I do lean toward Dodge and Cummins although the new trucks and TD's are a far cry from my old reliable '92.

Art

 

[Casey Balvert]

I find the article interesting in light of the fact that this past spring a buddy of mine and I pulled almost identical fivers from Detroit to Alabama and back. His was 2002 Dmax 6 speed, mine a 97 CTD 5 speed. Both stock. Not only could I outpull him on the hills but I achieved almost 10% better fuel mileage. But then that was in the real world. Maybe if we had travelled on a 1000 mile dragstrip? Go figure.



Casey

 

[nickleinonen]

through work i am able to purchase a new ford on their x-plan and through gm on their family purchase plan. but still i have my mind set on the cummins in the dodge trucks. no egr system [until 2004. 5] reliable platform, real metal con rods [none of that powdered metal ford uses] and iron head [but it looks like the isuzu diesel alloy heads are holding up ok]

 

[rbattelle]

A lot of people seem to like Ford auto transmissions. Have they improved over the years? I know the A4LD (Bronco II, Explorer) was a total piece of garbage. After owning one I swore never to buy another Ford automatic.

 

[Snow man]

IMO,Ford autos up to this point have been garbage,They are sensitive to even the slightest bit of Tc dust in the fluid it caused TC shudder/chatter. Ford plow trucks are in the transmission shops usually 3 times in under 100K miles. ,especailly if they have the PSD.

 

[Art Newman]

I've never owned a Ford but their new 6. 0PS and new auto transmission that has features like the Allison have me interested. Guess I will have to have a look see, however I'm pretty sure I'll wind up with a CTD HO 6spd stick.

Art

 

[jerryrigg]

I've owned all the big three. I'm on my second Dodge, still have a Ford. You living in Big Wyo I assume your going with 4wd. I personally won't have a independent front suspension in a 3/4 or 1ton truck Chevy's may be proven but I won't do it. Ford's Superduty finally went back to a Dana 60 in front, when they first came out they were using the Dana 50 in the 1ton's. Dodge still has the Dana 60 they get won't give you lock out hubs. The CTD and the 6-speed is a great combination. I'd consider the Allison but I don't have a good feeling about the aluminum heads on the D-Max yet. The Ford 6. 0 PSD and transmission are new so you could be taking a risk that way. Without considering the engines, I tip my hat to Ford's quality, I've never had a manufacture's defect in any of my Fords. I have not had a Chevy since they change the front end so I really can't give a honest opinion there. Dodge. . well I have said for years the Dodge uses only the best parts on the planet, I only wish they were designed by someone who pasted the 3rd Grade and used duct tape instead of scotch tape to assemble them. I've just seen too many design/manufacture flaws in them (Lift Pump comes to mind). But IMHO my money will continue to be spent on the CTD for proven reliability and continue to repair/redesign the rest of the truck.



-Matt

 

[amsoilman]

I have only to look in the engine compartment, to make my decision. Try changing a "glow Plug" in the Ford or Chev, which seem to need replacing periodically. Compared to the CTD, overall is much easier to work on when the need arises.



I really don't care about drag racing either. When it comes to pulling, mileage, reliability and longevity, I'll take the CTD>



As to the fit, finish and quality of the new CTD. Very high in my book. Much better than my 94' was, and that one wasn't all that bad either. At 150,000 miles, it was still rattle free and ran like a top!



Wayne

amsoilman

 

[David Muench]

If you want a medium duty diesel, there's only 1 choice - Ram. If you feel confident spending the money on a light duty diesel, then I'd spend more time looking at the rest of the truck and test driving them.