Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Inj. pump timing failure code -maybe not bad pump

[daveshoe]

My truck started having dead pedal issues this summer. I absolutely had to make a 600 mile trip or die trying,and I discovered that as long as I stayed above 1800 RPM or so, the truck ran fine. It ran up the mountains of East Tennessee with a loaded weight of 12000. All I did was keep it in 5th gear at speed limit 55 or 6th gear at 70MPH. It would also run fine at lower RPM so long as it was pulling a load UP a hill. The dead pedal would appear only after a coast down.

Another thing I noticed later is that on cooler days, the condition was far less severe. It does not appear at all on 50 to 55 degree days. I am under a couple of deadlines,and really do not have the time to take the truck in for testing,but an independent mechanic who works on a lot of Dodge Cummins told me that he would suspect a TPS problem with these symptoms. He states that sometimes the TPS will develop a dead spot at the RPM where it is run at cruising speed.

I have learned to live with and control the dead pedal issue on my truck for now. When the weather really cools next week,it may confirm more things.

I really do not want to buy a new Inj. pump right now,so I will keep you posted. If I am right about this,maybe it will save someone else some money. If I am wrong, I will take my lumps and inform you guys.

 

[NMcCoy]

You need to fill your sig or tell what you got. I'm assumeing that you got a 2nd gen with a vp.



Have you checked for any codes?? if so what are they? on the 2000+ you can turn the key on/off three times and keeping it on on the third turn and the codes somtimes show on the odomiter, but with a 98-99 you will need to scan it.



As far as I know and have read the vp electronics does not like alot of heat. The heat and cool down cycles played havic on the older electronics on the vp. If you have the original pump with the older electronics it sounds like it's vp time, but not knowing at least what year you got and if it is the oem vp alone with any codes and any mods it's hard to tell.



Others that will tell you for sure will chime in but, They need the info I asked you for.

 

[NMcCoy]

Forgive me as I am burning my dinner as I'm writeing this, but you stated that you have a pump timing failure code. What is the code? and yes it could be a tps/etc. but sounds like a vp going south.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

daveshoe,

If you know someone with a VP truck with manual transmission (5 or 6 speed) and their truck does not have symptoms swap their APPS into your truck (aluminum mounting block and all) and see if symptoms disappear. If no symptoms the APPS is bad, if symptoms still present it's VP time.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[Huff N Puff]

Dont swap out the APPS,

daveshoe,



If you know someone with a VP truck with manual transmission (5 or 6 speed) and their truck does not have symptoms swap their APPS into your truck (aluminum mounting block and all) and see if symptoms disappear. If no symptoms the APPS is bad, if symptoms still present it's VP time.



Godspeed,

Trent

Unless you first do a voltage drop on the ground circuit. If the ground circuit is poor the new APPS will appear faulty.

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

The ground circuit could possibly be bad but I doubt it because the symptoms have a specific rpm range, not a sporadic one.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[daveshoe]

Sorry about the no-signature line. When you post on PDA-dial-up,the tag line dissappears. Truck is an 02 3500 c&c 6 speed with a vp. It did set the death code,but the purpose of this post is to explore if merely setting the code is a 100% probability that the vp is dying. At this point,I am going to eliminate other stuff first,try to save money,and inform you guys what the final outcome is. I am operating under the assumption that the death code for the VP can have a cause other than the VP 44 wearing out. I have always maintained my lift pump pressure and changed out my first lift pump when it dropped to 12 PSI/5 PSI WOT

First,I plan to get a timbon APPS upgrade. Much cheaper than OEM. Gary and others were the first to suggest that APPS might cause people to replace the VP when the problem is elsewhere. I am just trying to determine if a Cummins can set a VP death code and still live. I am not worried if the truck just quits--I can get a tow. If I am wrong in my assumption,I am not afraid to eat crow .

This situation reminds me of a 2001 3. 8 v-6 Chevy Impala. We would go on a trip,stop to eat,and the car would not allow you to turn on the key,and the "security" lite lit up. Damp foggy conditions made this problem worse. The dealer diagnostics had us replacing three electronic parts for over 800. 00. After I remembered how the dash lit up like a Christmas tree when a battery failed a month earlier, I specifically asked the service manager if this event could cause the problem,and also mentioned that a wiring harness was unplugged when I changed the battery,and asked them to check it out. [they never did] After talking some more about how the system reads the magnetic signature in the key, I asked him if dropping the keys could cause them not to operate the car. He said--'Maybe". After placing spark plug grease in the connector and using the spare set of keys for a while,the car computer eventually made the 'security' code go away and I saved $800. 00

I really do appreciate the concern, but the plan for now is to drive it and get the problem fixed when time permits I will keep you posted as to the results.

 

[SnoKing]

I had the following:

1. Longer cranking in hot weather.

2. One year gap in issues.

3. Couple cases of dead pedal.

4. 216 code

5. New VP

6. No further issues.

SNOKING

 

[aircop]

I had dead pedal issues for months, along with the 0216 code. Kept driving it until was getting dead pedal on e-way causing problems( almost rear ended a couple times). Changed out vp been good since. If it were APPS i think it would show a code for it.

 

[GOTSOOT]

what is a "timbon" apps upgrade?

 

[blacksheepdiesel]

It has been discovered that an aftermarket APPS is a direct plug-in for our trucks and is less expensive to boot! PM timbo here on TDR to purchase one.

Godspeed,
Trent

 

[daveshoe]

Sorry about the Timbo misspell. Just as I thought, with nice cool days of highs in the 50's,dead pedal is gone. I do realize that there is a computer chip on the VP-44, but I am hoping that the heat related aspect of my dead pedal is on the APPS or someplace else. Again,I am just trying to see if I can make the problem go away without replacing the vp-44 just yet

As another example of how heat can cause a hard to diagnose problem, my 1972 Honda cb100 bike acted like the coil was breaking down when the bike heated up. It ran rough,and if you shut it down,it would not start until it cooled down completely. When we checked the coil,it was putting out full voltage,but the voltage at the points was about half. That is when my buddy noticed a very faint orange glow at the arched spring of the points. It was barely contacting a small screw [unrelated to the points] and arcing, grounding out the point spring. Once it cooled,the arch of the spring grew wider giving it separation from the screw, which is why it ran fine until it heated up. We just put one more washer under the point spring and problem solved.