injector # 6 went out and took the piston with it. What causes for injector failure?

[Blacksdieselhp]

My friends 04. 5 started missing and blowing white smoke yesterday with no warning. Just pulled up, cut it off, stayed awhile and got back in it and when he started it up it was missing and smoking white. So he had it checked out at the dodge place and they said #6 was dead. I replaced #6 for him and the problem was still there. So to make sure the injector I replaced it with was good, I switched #1 and #6, but the scanner still showed #6. So did it take out the piston? He said when it first did it, it had a miss until 2000 rpm and then smoothed. But now its a constant miss at all rpms. The engine isn't making any loud noises or knocks. You can just hear the miss at the tailpipe. I know the only real way to know is with a conpression check, but I haven't had any luck finding the fitting to go in the injector hole. Anyone know where to get on? Also, theres no fuel in the oil. I kinda figured if it punched a hole in the piston there would be some fuel in the cranckcase. I appreciate any ideas guys. thanks

 

[sag2]

Most likely the injector is partially plugged and stuck open allowing it to over fuel. If he has a box or downloader and over fueled it that will also cause a melt down. Compression adapter is Miller 9007, available from SPX Miller Tool, 800 801-5420. They take Visa and M/C.

You also need a gauge that reads to at least 400 PSI.

 

[jwilliams3]

If the piston is severely melted you will usually find pieces of it stuck to the injector tip.

 

[MCummings]

Sounds like it could be a bad hrness or electrical connection to #6.



Merrick

 

[RobertP]

My friends 04. 5 started missing and blowing white smoke yesterday with no warning. Just pulled up, cut it off, stayed awhile and got back in it and when he started it up it was missing and smoking white. So he had it checked out at the dodge place and they said #6 was dead. I replaced #6 for him and the problem was still there. So to make sure the injector I replaced it with was good, I switched #1 and #6, but the scanner still showed #6. So did it take out the piston? He said when it first did it, it had a miss until 2000 rpm and then smoothed. But now its a constant miss at all rpms. The engine isn't making any loud noises or knocks. You can just hear the miss at the tailpipe. I know the only real way to know is with a conpression check, but I haven't had any luck finding the fitting to go in the injector hole. Anyone know where to get on? Also, theres no fuel in the oil. I kinda figured if it punched a hole in the piston there would be some fuel in the cranckcase. I appreciate any ideas guys. thanks

the only thing thats causes a stuck nozzel ( which is what your expiriencing) is debris in the fuel system, it dont matter how many boxes you have stacked. it's all about filtration. once that cylinder is run for a extended period of time it will get hotter and hotter and pit the piston and the cylinder wall or melt the piston, reguardless it will ruin your power assembly. these truck need 3 micron or better filtration to assure safe fuel systems opperation---esspesially if you add pressure boxes

 

[jwilliams3]

the only thing thats causes a stuck nozzel ( which is what your expiriencing) is debris in the fuel system, it dont matter how many boxes you have stacked. it's all about filtration

Actually Robert, over working the injectors on a regular basis can also shorten their lifespan (ie duration).

 

[RobertP]

one easy way to check for cylinder consistency is to unplug all of your injector harnesses and crank on the engine, listen for any irregular sounds( like rpm increase or decrease----that would tell you that there is a problem with a cylinder or not, useally it works well

 

[RobertP]

Actually Robert, over working the injectors on a regular basis can also shorten their lifespan (ie duration).

oh im sure that it does, but the wear from a over worked/wearing injector is also debris related, i. e. metal fragments will stick a nozzel quick and in a hurry

 

[jwilliams3]

Yeah I know that. Thats why I used the word "ALSO" in my sentence :-laf

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

Thanks for the input guys. If the injector was stuck open and over fueling, wouldn't there be some fuel in the crankcase? So is the tips what usually fail on these injectors? or is it the electronics in the injector? My wifes 2003 runs pretty rough in the mornings. I've been wandering if it needs a fresh set. Or would a fresh set of nozzles take care of the problem?

 

[CBrahs]

It is probably not an injector since you stated that you swapped #1 & #6 and still have the problem. I understand what everyone is saying about melting piston and debris getting stuck to the injector tip but did you see anything on the tip of #6 when you removed it? The problem either lies in an electrical connection or piston since swapping 1 and 6 did not fix it.

 

[jelag]

Years ago when I was selling tune up equipment and as we moved into computers we were able to put cranking amps per cylinder on a screen..... it was easy to tell a low hole as the cranking amps were way down..... That's what NGM is saying above...



Also I agree with the rest of the gang... . if you can swap 1 and 6 the the problem doesn't move ... ... its mechanical or electrical... . its very unlikely but you have a flat cam and have the same problem.....



While at the SEMA and AAPEX shows in Vegas a few weeks ago I saw a really nice scope attached to a computer... . it was from a German company and they had it run into the cylinder of a very small diesel engine through one of those pencil thin injector holes..... in side the cylinder was a Timex Watch and with this bore scope the watch looked like it was 15" in diameter on the computer screen... . they said they had sold thousands of these scopes to Doctors... . the probe can be up to 8 ft. long... and wasn't more than 1/8" diameter... . they actually had it tied in a knot to show how it would flex... . It was designed to run up veins and arteries to look at your heart... .



You know... if you have to ask the price you can't afford it... . so I didn't ask... . but what a great tool for this kind of testing.....

 

[Blacksdieselhp]

yea, that would be an awesome tool to have, but if we could afford one, we probably wouldn't be working on diesel trucks :-laf . The injector had no sign of anything wrong. Nothing on the tip. Guess I'll order the miller tool and do a compression check. i have the guage. I measured the lift on the rocker arms to make sure it wasn't the cam. That was one of my first thoughts. But, hopefully Dodge will fix it if its the piston. I know most people will blame the bullydog that was on it, but I think it would have happened with or without it. As in most cases. Chrysler knows the injectors are crap, and they know that it causes other problems when they go out, so they take anything they can get to void a warranty and not have to eat the repair costs. But anyway, I hope it turns out to be something else. Thanks for all the input guys.

 

[betterthanstock]

yea, that would be an awesome tool to have, but if we could afford one, we probably wouldn't be working on diesel trucks :-laf . The injector had no sign of anything wrong. Nothing on the tip. Guess I'll order the miller tool and do a compression check. i have the guage. I measured the lift on the rocker arms to make sure it wasn't the cam. That was one of my first thoughts. But, hopefully Dodge will fix it if its the piston. I know most people will blame the bullydog that was on it, but I think it would have happened with or without it. As in most cases. Chrysler knows the injectors are crap, and they know that it causes other problems when they go out, so they take anything they can get to void a warranty and not have to eat the repair costs. But anyway, I hope it turns out to be something else. Thanks for all the input guys.

how about this?

http://www.thespystore.com/fiberscopes.htm

 

[j.m.mcfly]

i have an 05 at work with #3 hole ng came in smoking white and missing did injector kill thet and found #3 NG called star and said put injector in so i did but injector tip looked melted put in anyway and still misses and smoke ck compression not much there must have been washed down put oil in it got little better but not enough looks like need engine checked fuel filter and looked like sand in the fuel bowl may have been concern

 

[Matt400]

how about this?

http://www.thespystore.com/fiberscopes.htm

Those are pretty interesting, I would like to see one you could hook to a PC for viewing on a large monitor.

 

[JonKing]

#6. Join the club, special thanks to crazy larry!

 

[TCluff]

Is the truck throwing an injector code? How did the valves feel? My truck just up and all of a sudden started missing and smoking one day, got home #4 exh valve was loose! I had dropped a valve seat!



I have a feeling that you wouldnt burn up a piston just starting the truck, but you can drop a valve seat after is sits for a while and cools down. The valve seat cost me a set of pistons and a cracked head.

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Back to the filtration subject and debris causing failure: Better filtration will help up to a point, but normal wear metals/debris from the CP3 can cause injector sticking as discussed in another long thread awhile back. There's no filtration between the CP3 and the injectors. In addition to using good filtration it would behoove everyone to use a good additive to help protect the CP3 and reduce the risk of wear metals sloughing off and messing with injector pintles.



It would be nice if someone could come up with a filter body & media to add between the CP3 & injectors that could withstand 26k psi without bursting.



Vaughn

 

[jwilliams3]

Back to the filtration subject and debris causing failure: Better filtration will help up to a point, but normal wear metals/debris from the CP3 can cause injector sticking as discussed in another long thread awhile back. There's no filtration between the CP3 and the injectors. In addition to using good filtration it would behoove everyone to use a good additive to help protect the CP3 and reduce the risk of wear metals sloughing off and messing with injector pintles.



It would be nice if someone could come up with a filter body & media to add between the CP3 & injectors that could withstand 26k psi without bursting.



Vaughn

I heard Franz is working on a kit that will use used toilet paper... .