injector diagnostic testing

[EZeis]

Hello,

im planning to make an appt with the dealer to perform injector testing under warranty. I have clouds of black smoke at times, lower than normal fuel mileage, minor miss that seems to vary, twice the engine would quiver at idle. Has power but I feel not like it use to.

I want them to do a cylinder kill test and the injector return flow test. Plus whatever other tests they feel need done.



so, should I asked for any other testing? Anything I should specify? Anything I should do before the appt? Im going to pull the fuel filter and make sure there's no dirt or water in the housing. I've never found water in the filter. I drain it at every fuel stop.



Couple other things worth mentioning.



On a 1000 mile trip pulling my camper the truck was only getting 8mpg on flat ground when it use to get 12 and it made the corner of the bumper and camper black with soot. I put fuel injector cleaner in and the soot seem to stop and mileage went up but still low.



Truck has always bucked on cruise control but bucks worse now.



Engine makes a lot of what I would call timing rattle. Sounds similar to gasoline pinging.



Sometimes I hear what I believe is an injector ticking.



When I bring the engine on high idle (cruise switches) you can feel the miss better. Also hear it through the exhaust.





Notes,

truck has 55,500 miles and is all stock, no mods, no programmers, etc. I have the dealer change the fuel filter and air filter with every oil change, which is every 6 months. Still under the 5 year 100,000 mile engine warranty as well as the 7 year 70,000 mile Chrysler Service Contract.



Thanks,

Earl

 

[CKelley1]

it does sound like a injector is sticking open and closed at times, i have had the 03's do this but not the newer ones. there should be codes stored to show the culprit.

 

[EZeis]

it does sound like a injector is sticking open and closed at times, i have had the 03's do this but not the newer ones. there should be codes stored to show the culprit.

Thanks, no codes.



Earl

 

[HBarlow]

The best test a dealer can perform is the cylinder contribution test. Ask for it.

Bucking under cruise control on a slight downgrade is normal. All three of my Rams have done it - an '01 24 valve, an '06 HPCR, and an '08 6. 7.

The rough idle is most often caused by a bad FCA. The FCA is a common failure item on late 5. 9 engines. It used to be priced at about $150 at Geno's or Cummins. You can install it yourself.

I don't believe any Dodge dealership has the ability to test an injector other than by killing each one in turn. I don't think that will detect a smoking issue.

Sometimes pulling a heavy trailer against a headwind will cause the poor fuel economy you mentioned as well as the soot build up on the rear with a 5. 9. That too is normal. It takes a lot more power and fuel to pull a large trailer with a large wind block front end against a headwind.

Don't make such a large issue of your concerns that a dealership parts changer begins changing expensive parts for no reason. Some of them can cause more harm thqn good.

 

[rscurtis]

I can't speak for the competence of the dealership Earl may go to, as I've only had PA inspections done there and bought some parts from them. But I'll tell you one thing, they don't give anything away.

 

[EZeis]

I can't speak for the competence of the dealership Earl may go to, as I've only had PA inspections done there and bought some parts from them. But I'll tell you one thing, they don't give anything away.

It will be Shively's. Bought my truck new at Hoffmans in Hagerstown. I don't have any faith in their techs to do engine related work. So I'm going to give Shively's a try. They're suppose to have two good diesel techs.

I'm also gonna swing by Diesel Power Systems and see what they think. They always give me free advice.



Earl

 

[EZeis]

The past few days I've been running my truck and getting on it. No black clouds of smoke anymore. Seems to have stopped for now. Damn engine. Still got the minor miss and all kinds of timing rattle and low MPG yet.



I stopped today and got some Diesel Kleen to try in it. My engine warranty is up dec 16th so I don't want to miss around too long. My service contract is good till dec 16 of 2013 and covers injectors but has a 100. 00 deductible.



Btw, what is the differance between a miss and rough idle. To me a rough idle is rough as in a major miss/dead miss or a couple cylinders missing. So I call what I have a minor miss but it does vary.





Earl

 

[SierraRam]

I agree with the FCA being the problem with the timing rattle and miss or rough idle.

 

[EZeis]

Maybe I'll try a new FCA. If it doesn't help, I'll at least have a spare as they seem prone to fail.





Earl

 

[steved]

Bucking under cruise control on a slight downgrade is normal. All three of my Rams have done it - an '01 24 valve, an '06 HPCR, and an '08 6. 7.



.

Just because your trucks have "done" it doesn't make it normal... I see you post this answer often and wonder if you really understand (or have actually experienced) what is meant by "bucking" when one of these trucks is affected. The bucking that is caused by faulty injectors is severe... it will literally jerk the truck to the point you will fear drive line damage.



I've owned several CTD trucks (all over 200k) and only this 04. 5 has ever had this issue, and a set of injectors cured it, completely. It has been flawless for over 100k... not a hint of surge or buck, towing, empty, or otherwise.

 

[EZeis]

Just because your trucks have "done" it doesn't make it normal... I see you post this answer often and wonder if you really understand (or have actually experienced) what is meant by "bucking" when one of these trucks is affected. The bucking that is caused by faulty injectors is severe... it will literally jerk the truck to the point you will fear drive line damage.



I've owned several CTD trucks (all over 200k) and only this 04. 5 has ever had this issue, and a set of injectors cured it, completely. It has been flawless for over 100k... not a hint of surge or buck, towing, empty, or otherwise.

Mine has bucked since new but has gotten worse. Sometimes it bucks so badly I have to turn the cruise off. I mean buck, like someone first learning to drive a gasoline manual trans. I wouldn't call mine a surge as a surge is less rough.





Earl

 

[HBarlow]

Just because your trucks have "done" it doesn't make it normal... I see you post this answer often and wonder if you really understand (or have actually experienced) what is meant by "bucking" when one of these trucks is affected. The bucking that is caused by faulty injectors is severe... it will literally jerk the truck to the point you will fear drive line damage.

I've owned several CTD trucks (all over 200k) and only this 04. 5 has ever had this issue, and a set of injectors cured it, completely. It has been flawless for over 100k... not a hint of surge or buck, towing, empty, or otherwise.

You've defined what the word "bucking" means to you. The word has a different meaning with some people.

Many of the TDR members who post questions about a driveablility irregularity they experience are not English majors and often are not expert at vocabulary. They use the word that best describes a symptom to them.

My point is that none of the Cummins-powered Rams is capable of precise smooth speed control when using the cruise control on a slight downgrade. All of them will experience irregular bucking, surging, lurching, or changes in speed. You can choose your preferred word and definition. The symptom remains the same.

 

[Wingate]

YOu can test the FCA theory by dumping a quart of 2 stroke oil in the tank... . if it clears up, change the FCA. .

 

[EZeis]

New FCA will be here Wed. Will see if it makes any changes.





Earl

 

[Mechanologist]

Hi Earl



I was wondering if that was the problem. I have a 04. 5 with 218,000 on the clock and seems to have a similar problem. A really rough idle sometimes and some timing noise upon accelerating. It also has a strange noise coming from the dashboard/firewall area like the fan motor is running on then off for a few seconds. I checkout the injector nozzles (looked good) and adjusted the valves. It has only did it a couple of time since then but is still making me wonder what the hell is it.



Thanks,

Scott

 

[jakprince]

Has anybody had trouble with stripping out the bolts when changing the FCA?

 

[JJPage]

Has anybody had trouble with stripping out the bolts when changing the FCA?

Quite a few folks have stripped the #25 torx screws out while trying to remove the FCA.



Remove the eight screws that hold the inner fender liner, and drop it out of your way, then make sure the torx bit has a good even bite before trying to remove. If you have already stripped one... you may be able to drill and ez-out.

 

[jakprince]

Oh i havent touched it yet just askin first