injector issue

[cj hall]

hello to all



here's the deal



at 123xxx miles i had to put injectors in my 2004 new with 50 hp tips ran great for about 6000 miles a week ago it all came to an end.



the engine quit and would not start again.



code thrown and again cam shaft sensor. Replaced cam and crank sensor

sounded like the timing was right but would not run tested the CP3 its good

pop off was fine.



started plugging the injector lines when we got to three it started to fire not good but it would try to run. at this point we pulled the injectors to see what we have.



What we found was #3 the top was off center about 15 degrees sent them in for testing to find out what happened.



returned injectors saying that dirty fuel had plugged this injector and blew the top off of it they said that it must have built over 30k in psi to blow the top off , no replacement had to buy one new injector



the fuel I run is centrifuged vegetable oil blend it's clean cleaner than the diesel fuel you buy.



I know that running this fuel you are taking chances and I am OK with that my question is.



could this really happen or is this a case of getting a bad injector and the mfg just wont stand behind the product they make.



What I need is some one to tell me how the injector works and if this could happen.



pictures to follow



thanks for reading



cj hall

 

[cj hall]

pictures of injector

here are two pictures

 

[rscurtis]

You can centrifuge the vegetable oil all you want, that doesn't get rid of the glycerin (fat). If you want to run that stuff, convert it to biodiesel.

 

[steved]

Unless you've capped the rail, shouldn't the rail PRV pop and bleed that kind of pressure off before it got anywhere close to 30kpsi?

 

[cerberusiam]

Even with the PRV, rail pressure can and will spike to 30k psi before it is relieved. However, that is rail pressure and not what is in the upper part of the injector.



The injector return circuit is orficed pretty tightly off the rail to circulate fuel thru the coils in the top part of the injector and cool them. It is also orficed at the back of the head but the pressure in the return circuit should not be that high.



Generally when you start blowing tops on the injectors either the head return is plugged or an injector return is plugged. Unless the rebuilder pulled some obvious crud out of the injector I would be suspicious of dirty fuel and\or high pressures.



Its entirely possbile the injector return plugged and ble wit off. Its just as possible a bad coil and body was used in the rebuild if you had that done when you got the tips.

 

[BIGNASTY]

Did I miss it? what is the name of the company that you bought the injectors from thanks BIG

 

[cj hall]

injectors

hello big and others



Bought them from U S Diesel Parts in Missoula they had what I needed and at the price was good was disappointed at first with what they told me about the injector in question but after taking to others I am fine with the outcome.



It will be another week or so before its running again I will be putting on a 3 micron filter and a FASS Heater on the new filter head that will replace the stock canister filter on the side of the engine and a inline heater around the fuel line is in the works also.



What I think has happened is that the injector tolerance on the 2004 was not as tight as the ones for the newer trucks ( not the 6. 7 ) the injectors are the same just pick the nozzle for the year you have, 7 micron filtering in 2004 was fine but the newer engines with all the emissions need's more power and the easy way to make power is in the injector. any one that is having issues will need to run a three micron filter the heater is for running in the winter diesel fuel in montana will freeze going down the road with a fass pump/air dog mounted down in the wind. you can bet the vegetable oil blend freezes before diesel :-laf:-laf:-laf even with petrol added.



this should take care of the issues for now.



thanks to all for the thoughts on the injectors



thanks for reading

cj hall

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Don't run veggie oil in a HPCR engine! Triglycerides have too high a molecular weight, and won't burn well. You will gum up the injectors, piston rings, etc.

 

[cj hall]

thank you all



my mind is made up about running vegtable oil as a fuel,thank you

the question is about the injector issue I am having. The post by cerberusiam

got right to the point.



even if I was running 100% diesel fuel all the injector maker would have to say is the fuel was dirty and that would be it . case closed.



The Injector supplier told me I should run a three micron filter to help clean the fuel

I agree and will be running one. i will also be centrifuging my diesel fuel and filtering my gasoline before i run it.



it not about the dirt you can see it the dirt you cant see that will get you.



I had no idea that the injectors tops are cooled by the fuel you learn some thing new everyday. THANKS AGAIN



cj hall

 

[Bob4x4]

From an svo site



There's a widespread misconception among SVO users (and SVO kit vendors) that quality control with used oil means three things: filter, filter, filter. Often they filter it down to 0. 5 microns, even though the final fuel filter specified for the engine by the manufacturer will probably be 10 or 5 microns, and seldom less than 2 microns. Special high-priced filter units are added to some SVO kits, which claim to remove the water content from the oil as well.



But suspended particles and water are not the only impurities in used oil. There are serious contaminants that filtering won't remove.



For instance, acid contamination can and will damage your engine. Filtering has no effect -- zero effect -- on the acid content of the oil. Centrifuging it also has zero effect on the acid content.



The German PPO fuel standard (see above), the only existing quality standard for SVO, sets a maximum acid value of 2. 0 mg KOH/g.





Elsbett Technologie says oil that's too acidic can affect the lube oil.





The Fuel Injection Equipment Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch) say it corrodes fuel injection equipment and leaves sediments on parts.





Engine damage of a car using the BioCar SVO system was traced to a supply of soy oil which was not the usual food-grade oil and had a high acid content. "An examination of the defective sections found substantial surface erosion of the hardened steel high pressure parts, which are not acid-proof. "

 

[HBarlow]

It's amazing to me that inspite of basic common sense and information like that provided here above by Joe Donnelly and Bob that some are still determined to run vegetable oil, used fast food fry oil, and other junk in their expensive engines!

Each to his own. I avoid diesel fuel with the B5 label on the pump as much as possible.

Is it only coincidence that in 660k miles of Cummins diesel ownership in a 24 valve '01, an '06 HPCR, and an ISB6. 7, all using nothing but OEM filters, I have never had a bad injector or fuel contamination issues?

 

[Bob4x4]

:-laf

I would just about run anything in my old 12v but nothing but the good stuff in the common rail

 

[BIGNASTY]

Bio runs just fine in all the diesels in the family. The only reason we are going back to dino D is cause it's getting a bit brisk and Bio is not a cold weather fuel. As far as the quality of Bio fuel that we are making a friend from where I worked came up for vacation. He has TWO degrees from MIT HE EARND THEM AT THE SAME TIME. 1 for chemistry and the other for Biology. So I think that he may just have an edge on MOST of us. He is a chemist for Chevron. He took a look at our product and said that he thinks its at least if not better than what you can buy from the pump. He ran tests and said its just like the refinery makes back home. I do run more than our share of filters ending with a cat 2 mic. He said the same thing that BOB posted FILTER FILTER FILTER. I asked about the viscosity ( thickness) of the BIO he said its the same as Dino Diesel. He runs it in his Chevy and NO HE DOSENT HAVE 600K OF EXPERIANCE on it but if he say's good to go I BELIVE HIM AND HIS 2 DEGREE'S I for one applaud CJ's ambition to run an alternative fuel even in spite of others thoughts VEG its a bold move