Injector loose in the head.

[bgilbert]

Why would my injectors be loose in this new cylinder head when I have the hold down nuts torqued to 44ft-lbs??? I can pull up and down on the injectors in the head. I was like WTF???!!!! I rechecked the torque and its right on. Funny thing is, when I hand threaded the hold down nut in the new head, the nut pretty much bottomed out with not much resistance. I was thinking, how the hell am I gonna torque it if I have no more threads...



Also broke a exhaust manifold to head bolt, I don't think the hole was tapped very deep. I am not too impressed with this ****en head LOL. Ok. Bill.

 

[91W350]

Bill, I think if anybody here will get it figured out, it will be you. :-laf I know I would be lost. Glen

 

[dpuckett]

My first guess would be to take the injector out and look in the threadds for any sign of blockage, i. e. gunk, rust, etc, even though it is supposed to be a new head. Is there a ring on the injector? i know this is elementary stuff for you and me, but sometimes we overlook the obvious.



Daniel

 

[Greenleaf]

Everything being the same (injector/copper seal washer/hold-down nut) then the hole is too deep.



What has changed? The head only? Injector?



Process of elimination my good man.



FWIW:When I change from . 065 copper seal to the. 010 seal there is NO problems. Nor injectors... ... ...





-S

 

[bgilbert]

Everything being the same (injector/copper seal washer/hold-down nut) then the hole is too deep.



What has changed? The head only? Injector?



Process of elimination my good man.



FWIW:When I change from . 065 copper seal to the. 010 seal there is NO problems. Nor injectors... ... ...





-S

Changes are a new style cylinder head with 7mm injector bores. Now, no need for the 7mm-9mm adaptor bushings. Same injector, only now with . 020 washers.



I need to pull one of them and see if something changed, try DP's idea.

 

[JLEONARD]

Injector loose in the head

I always suspected this about Bill. :-laf :-laf

 

[Greenleaf]

Yeah. I thought of that as well... ... ... ... ... ... ... . twern't going to say anything though



Bill may be on to a possible problem /solution, so I personally won't be buring a bridge I have yet to cross.





But after I cross it... ... . :-laf

 

[bgilbert]

Well I'm sure alot of us have an injector or two loose in the head:-laf.



I'm also gonna try a thicker injector washer, see if that changes anything.

 

[Piers]

On some heads, aftermarket, genuine Cummins U. S. A. , Brazil, Mexico, etc, you can't run a . 020" washer. They were designed to work with a . 060" washers & although "most" heads will let you run a . 020" washer, some, will not.

 

[bgilbert]

On some heads, aftermarket, genuine Cummins U. S. A. , Brazil, Mexico, etc, you can't run a . 020" washer. They were designed to work with a . 060" washers & although "most" heads will let you run a . 020" washer, some, will not.

Thanks Piers. This is what it was. Big thanks to Brian Block. Once again, he helped me on this one. Well first before Piers , he said the same thing. I went out and switched to the 'medium' sized injector washers in the kit and when the hold down nut is hand tight, the injector body doesn't move at all. Torqued down, it won't budge. Now I just hope I don't shoot an injector through the hood down the road:-laf. I really hated thinking about putting that old 89 German head back on :-laf , athough it was flat and held 50psi a few times. The new one is made in Brazil.



I'm sorta ticked though, cause I wanted to use those . 020 washers. Thats the reason I bought the new head, along with the 7mm injector bores. Oh well, new head, can't complain .

 

[MMiller]

So what was holding you up, the threads not going deep enough into the head? Why not make a few more threads with some sort of tap?



Why were you so set on the thin washers, more advance in timing?



Hows it run? Does it run any differnt with a ported head?



Michael

 

[bgilbert]

So what was holding you up, the threads not going deep enough into the head? Why not make a few more threads with some sort of tap?



Why were you so set on the thin washers, more advance in timing?



Hows it run? Does it run any differnt with a ported head?



Michael

That's alot of questions :-laf . Use of thin washers is to place more of the fuel spray into the piston bowl. They are recommended with POD's, to reduce idle haze. From the looks of my pistons, I was getting a slight amount of spray just outside the piston bowl. I don't know if it was from the POD's, or the EDM's that I had only run for a few weeks. This is with the thick adaptor sleeves.



I'm supposing what was holding me up was this, thin washer- allows the injector to go deeper into the bore. The indexing groove in the new head isn't as deep as some heads, not allowing the injector to drop all the way down. Raise up the injector by way of a thicker inj washer, now the hold down nut actually rests on the ring on the injector. Tighten it down, no more movement. I'm told with a little die grinder action or what have you, one could modify/machine the groove in the head so that the injector will go deeper, or should I say the indexing ball on the injector will.



I'm definately not the expert to explain this, so don't quote me:-laf.



It's not running yet. Broke an exhaust manifold bolt in the new head #@$%! , so thats the next project- extractor??, drill out, retap?? But thats a different thread coming maybe.

 

[BushWakr - RIP]

First, Piers thanks for jumping in here bud...



Bill, have you considered taking a set of the thicker washers and thinning them on some 400 fine or even 600 fine emory... . I think you can find a good solution if you can "work your way downward" to the compromise thickness between the 20 thou and the thicker washers... .



pb...

 

[JLEONARD]

Bill,

Sounds like you first need to find out what the limiting factor is... . the ball groove being shallow or the bore beeing deeper.

Perhaps if you put a little "dychem" or what have you on the washer surface and put the injector in the bore and a very light "tap" on the injector will put a witness mark on the washer if the injector can reach the washer surface.

If it can't reach the washer then perhaps it's the ball groove that's holding you up.

If it does then perhaps you need to modify a set of hold down nuts to work.

I would also think you could measure it all and come up with the answer, but that might take some skill and equipment you don't have.

Just thinking aloud here.

Jay

 

[bgilbert]

Jay you are right, I'm sure a more equipped shop or someone with more know how and or talent than me could figure out a better answer. But at this point I just want to get the truck running and out of the garage. I'm going stir crazy and sick of driving a this gutless crew cab with 360 gasser.

 

[Greenleaf]

But at this point I just want to get the truck running and out of the garage. I'm going stir crazy and sick of driving a this gutless crew cab with 360 gasser. [/QUOTE]







Try a four cylinder Ford Ranger for five months.



-S

 

[dpuckett]

You may have to run the thicker washers for a while. I got my new injectors yesterday, and it had the . 060 washers; stock were the . 090s. ANyway, I got to measuring with the blade of my knife, and sure enough the new tips were a hair shorter than the old ones. Dont ask me why... ... . Might the same thing be happening here- different tips slightly different length, and thus different depth into the combustion chamber?



-DP

 

[TKingsbury]

I would think that if the groove were not deep enough, the injector would bottom out and the nut would tighten "sooner" than it should. This would put no pressure on the copper and you would have combustion coming out around the injector. It kinda sounds to me like your threads aren't cut deep enough?

Travis. .

 

[MMiller]

I would think that if the groove were not deep enough, the injector would bottom out and the nut would tighten "sooner" than it should. This would put no pressure on the copper and you would have combustion coming out around the injector. It kinda sounds to me like your threads aren't cut deep enough?

Travis. .

Bingo... . I think we have a winner. I think your on the right track their Travis.



Michael

 

[bgilbert]

It kinda sounds to me like your threads aren't cut deep enough?

Travis. .

I'm not sure. I don't think so though. I can thread the hold-down nut ALL the way in the head with the injector body removed. It will run out of threads, bottom, snug, flush with the clyinder head.



I'll troubleshoot it at a later date. I'm not too concerned with it at the moment. Got the injectors in and tight, now just need to get it finished before I go nuts driving this gasser :-laf . Heck once I get this HG job finished, I have a South Bend Clutch FE waiting next to my bed for install .