Injector problem or just OCD kicking in?

[Jim W]

Ken, do you have any manuals that the previous owner had? The one you should look at is the diesel supplement booklet that Dodge provides. For my 2008 manual, it states on page 45 about white smoke and the causes for it. This is under engine warm-up. I think this may help you?

If you do not have a copy and can’t find one for your year of truck, I can post a copy of page 45 for you. Let me know if you need this.

I came across this issue when answering another question on a different forum about hard starting diesel engines in the winter.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

My truck has 175k on it and there will be a light haze on start up in the summer, im sure my injectors are worn but not at the point of doing any damage. If you have only ever put the truck full throttle a few times then put a load on it and do it some more, going near full throttle with an unloaded truck will not create enough heat to do much. If you have any long grades you could hit with your foot atleast 1/2 - 3/4 throttle to maintain speed that will create the heat you need to burn off carbon.

I should add if you can tow a load up hill and really load the engine turn overdrive off so it is in 3rd gear lock up to prevent transmission damage and keep trans temp down, RPMs around 2400-2800 RPM and it will pull that grade all day long.

As of today, all of my fluids and oils have been changed, so now that that is taken care of, the next thing is to hook up my travel trailer, adjust my hitch, adjust my trailer brakes and put some miles on it. The bad thing, it looks like I have another week of rain coming.

I would like to run a shake down trip around Mt. Rainier but by the looks of the mountain the snow level is probably fairly low and I believe that last weeks mud slide might still have the Northern Highway closed.

Once I can get it on the passes, I’ll have many miles of hills to climb.

Thank you for your help.
Ken

 

[Prairie Dog]

Hey Ken, as soon as I saw you mention another week of rain and mud slides, I figured you were close!
Are you anywhere near Bothell?

Scott

 

[Zoomschwortz]

Hey Ken, as soon as I saw you mention another week of rain and mud slides, I figured you were close!
Are you anywhere near Bothell?

Scott

No, I live about 15 minutes from the town of Eatonville, and about 30 minutes from the Elbe Hills and 45-50 minutes from Mt. Rainier.
We should be getting some sun around July 5th ;-)

 

[Zoomschwortz]

Ken, do you have any manuals that the previous owner had? The one you should look at is the diesel supplement booklet that Dodge provides. For my 2008 manual, it states on page 45 about white smoke and the causes for it. This is under engine warm-up. I think this may help you?

If you do not have a copy and can’t find one for your year of truck, I can post a copy of page 45 for you. Let me know if you need this.

I came across this issue when answering another question on a different forum about hard starting diesel engines in the winter.

Thanks for the tip!
I do have the Owners Manual and the Warranty Manual, I'll need to check them out tomorrow.
Thanks again
Ken

 

[Tuesdak]

@Zoomschwortz just blindly dumping the engine oil with a change isn't going to help answer any questions you posed. You should take at least one oil sample that has over 1000 miles on the oil to look for major problems like coolant or diesel fuel in the oil. Likely you will just waste your money for a good sample. However the times you get a warning from an oil sample you can possibly fix a problem before you rebuild an engine. An engine oil sample isn't that expensive in context of the oil cost that was just changed. I use a "vampire" kit and take samples from the dipstick tube so I don't have to change the oil for a sample.

Point of fact the PO of my 2003 5.9, old guy pulling an RV like yours was, had blown up the engine so badly that coolant showed up in the Manual Transmission oil sample result. Yeah I sample more than just the engine. I also cut used engine oil filters open to check for "part numbers" metal debris, dirt, sludge, and to see if the filter held up as some were missing a pleat crimp, had torn media, and at times a t-shirt stuffed in a can would have "not" done the same job just as well as a defective filter...

You killed the grid heater over battery drain concerns? Are you short tripping a diesel engine? Otherwise it runs long enough to charge the batteries back up... IMO you should hook the grid heater back up over the white smoke concern. If short trips apply at all install an automatic battery charger and plug it in once a week to top off the batteries. No it isn't absolutely needed, but, it helps reduce smoke from unburned diesel. Oil washing from unburned diesel on the cylinder walls from cold starts is a long debate you can read about. The colder the engine and air the more diesel that doesn't evaporate and burn. Again advantage for grid heater here...

I would keep a sharp eye on the coolant level and check all the injector lines, engine off!!!, for leaks. Engine off because a high pressure injection system leak can cut your hand and with hydrocarbon poising you will loose the hand.

My 2003 had a road draft tube so the engine oil smell would get into the cab. There is a long thread somewhere on sealing up the missing drain flapper and the rest of the cowl/firewall area where the HVAC takes in fresh air.

 

[Ozymandias]

Just to mention it here to, you do NOT need the pre-heat cycle prior to starting the engine. This is for emissions reasons only - or for Alaska in winter.
You can just start the engine like a gasser. It will fire right up.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

@Zoomschwortz just blindly dumping the engine oil with a change isn't going to help answer any questions you posed. You should take at least one oil sample that has over 1000 miles on the oil to look for major problems like coolant or diesel fuel in the oil. Likely you will just waste your money for a good sample. However the times you get a warning from an oil sample you can possibly fix a problem before you rebuild an engine. An engine oil sample isn't that expensive in context of the oil cost that was just changed. I use a "vampire" kit and take samples from the dipstick tube so I don't have to change the oil for a sample.

Point of fact the PO of my 2003 5.9, old guy pulling an RV like yours was, had blown up the engine so badly that coolant showed up in the Manual Transmission oil sample result. Yeah I sample more than just the engine. I also cut used engine oil filters open to check for "part numbers" metal debris, dirt, sludge, and to see if the filter held up as some were missing a pleat crimp, had torn media, and at times a t-shirt stuffed in a can would have "not" done the same job just as well as a defective filter...

You killed the grid heater over battery drain concerns? Are you short tripping a diesel engine? Otherwise it runs long enough to charge the batteries back up... IMO you should hook the grid heater back up over the white smoke concern. If short trips apply at all install an automatic battery charger and plug it in once a week to top off the batteries. No it isn't absolutely needed, but, it helps reduce smoke from unburned diesel. Oil washing from unburned diesel on the cylinder walls from cold starts is a long debate you can read about. The colder the engine and air the more diesel that doesn't evaporate and burn. Again advantage for grid heater here...

I would keep a sharp eye on the coolant level and check all the injector lines, engine off!!!, for leaks. Engine off because a high pressure injection system leak can cut your hand and with hydrocarbon poising you will loose the hand.

My 2003 had a road draft tube so the engine oil smell would get into the cab. There is a long thread somewhere on sealing up the missing drain flapper and the rest of the cowl/firewall area where the HVAC takes in fresh air.

Thank you for all of the information.

Oil Test:
Coolant in the manual transmission, all I can say is WOW! I have seen more than my share of blown engines over the decades, my favorite included a "C" shaped Carrillo H Beam rod, but I have never seen Engine coolant make it into a manual transmission.

What type of oil test do you recommend and what company do you use?
As for getting a sample, I installed a Geno's oil changer and it looks like it will be easy to get a small sample.

Grid Heater:
I haven't done anything to the heater, after having read threads saying that I really don't need to use it unless I'm getting down around 0 degrees F, but I have started the truck both using and not using the grid heater to check for smoke and haven't noticed a difference in amount or time of smoke.
As for short trips, I make it a point to get the engine temp into the area of 190 and transmission 150-170

But, while we are on the subject of grid heaters.
I installed an Edge CTS2 and while checking for codes, I have been getting P2609 Intake Air Heater System Performance and P0513 Invalid Skim Key. Any guesses whats going on?

Road Draft Tube:
All of the trucks fluids and oils have been changed in the past few weeks. All levels before changing and or flushing were right where they should be and now I know how old and how many miles they have on them.

Is this Oil Draft Tube some type of engine breather tube and where is it located?

Thanks again
Ken

 

[Zoomschwortz]

Just to mention it here to, you do NOT need the pre-heat cycle prior to starting the engine. This is for emissions reasons only - or for Alaska in winter.
You can just start the engine like a gasser. It will fire right up.

Thought I heard that somewhere

 

[BigPapa]

Point of fact the PO of my 2003 5.9, old guy pulling an RV like yours was, had blown up the engine so badly that coolant showed up in the Manual Transmission oil sample result.

Sorry, but unless he busted the block, the bell housing, and the transmission case, I have to throw the BS flag on this one.

 

[cerberusiam]

Thought I heard that somewhere

While it is true they will start even below 0 F without the grid heaters, it doesn't follow that they are not needed. A cold start with grid heaters is a lot easier, on the ears and the engine both. Definitely not an Alaska only item either, in a good 60% of the continental US they are a boon in the winter months. The grid heaters continue cycle after the engine is running until intake air temp stabilizes in the 60 F degree range, that helps emissions no doubt but it also helps wet stacking n the cylinders just like the high idle feature. That white exhaust you see will disappear faster with the grids working than without.

 

[Zoomschwortz]

While it is true they will start even below 0 F without the grid heaters, it doesn't follow that they are not needed. A cold start with grid heaters is a lot easier, on the ears and the engine both. Definitely not an Alaska only item either, in a good 60% of the continental US they are a boon in the winter months. The grid heaters continue cycle after the engine is running until intake air temp stabilizes in the 60 F degree range, that helps emissions no doubt but it also helps wet stacking n the cylinders just like the high idle feature. That white exhaust you see will disappear faster with the grids working than without.

Does the grid still kick in if the key is inserted and the engine is started without waiting for coil symbol to turn off?

About 2 minutes after starting the engine, my engine idle jumps from 700rpm to 1,000rpm. Is this the high idle feature you are talking about? As soon as I touch the go pedal, the idle drops back to 700rpm and then stays there.
Is there a way to get the rpm to jump to 1,000rpm sooner than 2 minutes?

Thanks for your information. Ken

 

[BigPapa]

Yes, the grid heater cycles any time the intake air temp is below mid-50*'s, and it diasables when vehicle speed is over 15mph. The only thing you're doing by not waiting for them to cycle off before starting is that you're not pulling the power straight off the batteries, the alternator is charging when it starts running. In my opinion, unless you have marginal batteries and your just trying to make it through the winter, use the heater grids. It's easier on everything.

As to the high idle, I really don't know. My old 12 valve doesn't have that "automatic" feature. I had to fab up a high idle device of my own, a 3/4" dowel rod between the seat bottom and the accelerator pedal...

 

[Zoomschwortz]

Yes, the grid heater cycles any time the intake air temp is below mid-50*'s, and it diasables when vehicle speed is over 15mph. The only thing you're doing by not waiting for them to cycle off before starting is that you're not pulling the power straight off the batteries, the alternator is charging when it starts running. In my opinion, unless you have marginal batteries and your just trying to make it through the winter, use the heater grids. It's easier on everything.

As to the high idle, I really don't know. My old 12 valve doesn't have that "automatic" feature. I had to fab up a high idle device of my own, a 3/4" dowel rod between the seat bottom and the accelerator pedal...

Thanks for the information.

I have also used thinks like sticks to adjust my idle many years ago.

As for my grid heater, I guess I should figure out why I’m getting the P2609 code and I will start paying closer attention to the IAT gauge to see how well the grid heater is working.

So far,no check engine lights.

It would probably be a good idea to have the oil tested after I get 1k-2k miles on it, just to see if there are any potential problems.

Thanks again
Ken

 

[Prairie Dog]

I too, would like to understand how eng coolant can get into a manual trans?

TY,
Scott

 

[Zoomschwortz]

Well, for the past couple weeks I have been starting the truck with and without the grid heater and with and without the block heater and have been getting smoke, but for some strange reason this morning it was 37 degrees I used the grid heater and for just a very few seconds (less than 10) there was a very light hardly visible amount of smoke.

I am baffled, why in the world after getting a couple minutes of smoke every morning with temperatures ranging from upper 20’s to upper 40’s, raining and dry, block heater and no block heater, why this morning it was just a wisp of smoke.
The only thing I can think of is that I now have run a half tank of diesel with 16oz of Diesel Kleen.

Maybe it was just a fluke, but if it continues to start with only a wisp of smoke, the Diesel Kleen is the only reason I can think of.

 

[Jim W]

Ken. did you read the Diesel Supplemental book for your truck yet? Here is the page from my booklet!

 

[Zoomschwortz]

Ken. did you read the Diesel Supplemental book for your truck yet? Here is the page from my booklet!

Thank you and yes I did.
For 2006 it is on page 245 and it makes it pretty clear that the grid heater “reduces the amount of white smoke generated by a warming engine.”

Makes it very clear that white smoke on a cold engine is very normal.

By the way, an update on my very light smoke yesterday. This morning it was 40 degrees and raining and while using the grid, I once again had smoke for a couple minutes.

Looks like yesterday was a rare anomaly.

Thank you everyone for their help and information!
Ken

Oh, and after reading my manual, I will continue using my grid heater.

 

[Ozymandias]

I don't start with it.
I never used that battery killer for 40 years of Diesel engine use unless needed.

 

[Prairie Dog]

I generally use it. It's a small thing I can do for the environment and doesn't cost me anything.