Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Injector Pump instructions

[rb1]

Need to know how to take my injector pump off my 2000 CTD Sport. What tools will I need, etc. ?

I'm thinking my injector pump is the problem as I was driving down the road and my truck died then got it going and the second time it dyed, I had a puff of blue smoke out the tailpipe. If anybody has any other ideas of what might be the problem please let me know.



Thanks !!!

Ron Bowers

 

[Bob Wagner]

Ron, This should help you



http://www.nwbombers.com/membersites/kent/vp44.html

 

[rkressg]

Check the ECM for codes! Turn ignition on, off, on, off, on and do not start. Watch the odometer for any p codes. If you have a p0216, p1688, or p1689, then chances are good your VP44 is dying, if not, than it is probably something else.



It could be a problem with the APPS (which a recalibration will usually fix). Also, what are your fuel pressures like? How long have they been like that? Have you recently changed the fuel filter?



Don't go and burn $1500 until you are sure it is what is wrong.

-Rich

 

[rb1]

thanks guys for your help i got it running tonite i did spend to much time getting the air out of the lines

but thank you again

ron bowers

:-laf

 

[SScandalis]

I'm taking my truck in tomorrow for diagnosis of a possible Transfer Pump and/or Injector Pump issue. Would like to know what my options are.



Q1) Is what I'm hearing about weak Cummins Injector Pumps on 24-valve the experience of others? Does a downstream fuel pressure or flow problem take out the Injector Pump very quickly?



Q2) Is Dodge or Cummins covering Injector Pumps on Cummins 24-Valves that are out of the original 5 year/100,000 mile warranty but low miles (66K in this case)? Who can owners call to explore getting Dodge to cover this? This could be a possible $3,000 repair on a low mileage 7 year old Dodge/Cummins 24-Valve!



Q3) What less expensive options are there?





1998. 5 Dodge 2500 QuadCab

24-Valve Cummins 5. 9 L

66,000 miles



My Engine Check light just came on 3 days ago. Dealer read out code today as "injector pump timing failure". Technician says he will check Tranfer Pump (AKA lift pump?) first to check for fuel flow and pressure. He also says that 90+% of the time a downstream problem with the Transfer Pump or Fuel Filter damages the Injector Pump in short order.



Possible costs:



1) Transfer Pump $450 parts + labor

2) Clogged Fuel Filter about $150 parts/labor

3) Injector Pump (remanufactured) $2,000 + $200 to $400 labor

 

[HeavyHauler]

Well, I don't know about labor, but you're getting ripped on parts. A new injector pump can be bought for around $1300 (maybe less) and a lift pump can be had for around $150 or $175. A fuel filter is a $15 part so I don't know what else they're replacing on that quote.



Are you mechanically inclined at all? Replacing an injector pump is not all that big of a deal and those instructions posted in the first reply are very good. Also, a first-timer can normally replace a lift pump in 30-45 minutes.



Ask around here before you go spending that kind of money - if you don't feel comfortable doing it yourself, some TDR members in your area might be willing to help.



Good luck.

 

[SScandalis]

Thanks for your feedback HeavyHauler.



Yes, I am mechanically inclined. Time vs. money may be the deciding factor here. I am concerned about the costs I'm being told and why they are so high from the dealer.



I've called Chrysler Customer Service at 1-800-992-1997 and received a reference number to call back with once the full extent of the repair/cost is determined tomorrow. Chrysler says I'm out of warranty but is willing to talk again once all the damages are known - we'll see if they can help. Failure at 66K miles is not what we should expect from a Cummins engine.



The technician is saying that he doesn't recommend a self replacement because of two main reasons.



1) 20K+ PSI pressure system (very dangerous)

2) the keyway on the injector shaft can drop into the engine if you're not very careful - forcing the front of the engine to be disassembled to get the keyway back.



Also, from Dodge the Transfer Pump and Injector Pumps are under their "Star" system - i. e. even the dealer needs special permission to order the parts because of the cost. I'm told the dealer must do specific tests to prove that those parts are bad. I'm sure I can order the parts from aftermarket, but I don't know if the dealer will sell to me.



The $150 for the fuel filter is in the normal range I've paid when I've had a dealer change the fuel filter instead of doing it myself. Dodge dealers want $45-$50 for the filter and $75-$90 labor. Pep Boys auto charges about $32 for a fuel filter. Anyway, that's not the big problem here - the potential for $600 to $3,000 total if the dealer says both the Transfer Pump and Injector Pump need replacing.



Thanks,

Steve

 

[Moose Truck]

Steve, were do you live? I have not changed a VP-44, yet. But I have seen it done, It's not difficult, and I'd change mine tomorrow if I need to. See if there is a TDR group near you. Check Here: https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18



There are many post on how to do the job.

1) 20K+ PSI pressure system (very dangerous); Not with the engine off Take the Fuel Injector lines off in the groups of three that they go out the injectors in, leaving them bundled together. un bolt the clamps from the head, leaving the lines clamped together (10 Millimeter bolts). Remove the aft lifting eye from the cylinder head to get the #6 line off.





2) the keyway on the injector shaft can drop into the engine if you're not very careful - forcing the front of the engine to be disassembled to get the keyway back; Rotate the engine over w/ a barring tool, or use a socket on the altenator pulley nut; till the key way is at the 12:00 o'clock position in the Timing gear. You will need to use a mirror and flash light to see this.



The other thing you would need is a small gear puller to "Pop" the timing gear off of the VP-44, after putting the keyway at the top. Have to go now, let us know how you make out, Moose 00 in Ct.

 

[rkressg]

If you live near Pittsburgh, I would be more than happy to change that pump for you on a weekend. It takes around 3 hours and all I would charge is a case of Guniess.



You can buy that MOPAR filter from Cummins (and get it in the original Fleetguard box, the same filter but reboxed for Dodge) for around $15. It takes less than 5min to change.



On your 98. 5, if you have not changed the fuel connecting tubes, when you remove the fuel lines for the first time, the tubes MUST be changed. Dodge will not tell you this, they will expect you to come back when the fuel lines leak so they can charge you for another diagnosis and then rip you off on $85 worth of fuel tubes (the dealer will probably charge $85 for each tube, when you can purchase the new style for the price of one).



When removing the pump, just be sure that the motor is 0deg off TDC on #1 and be careful when removing the pump and the key will not fall out. You can also go to a Cummins dealer today and pick up a recon pump for $1450. There are also sources around here to get a pump for as low as $850.



Also, there is only 16k of FP when the engine is running, there is 0psi of FP when the engine is off. The system does not stay pressurized after turning off the engine. The solution to finding leaks with this high pressure, use a piece of cardboard and not your hand to find leaks.



Your dealer is RIPPING you off on mechanical parts and unless your time is that valuable, you should reconsider taking your work there.



Also, you should consider upgrading your fuel supply system. At the age of your truck, and judging that you had it mantained by a Dodge dealer, the lift pump is either dead or dying. I would suggest upgrading it to a FASS based solution. It will aid in increasing the life expectancy of the VP44.

-Rich

 

[SScandalis]

I'm in Nothern California in the SF Bay Area. Thanks for the suggestion about looking up a local TDR group.



- Steve

 

[SScandalis]

Rich,



Great offer! Unfortunately I'm on the other side of the country. Thanks for the tips for removal, parts upgrade and leak checking with cardboard - sure wouldn't want to lose a hand to filling it up with Diesel. Yes, something sure seems off on the dealer prices as well as the component reliability of this engine. As soon as the diagnosis / cost is known then I can continue to negotiate with Chrysler regarding coverage.



Looks like I at least need someone's help to diagnosis the exact problem. I'll be sure to ask about the fuel connecting tubes tomorrow. The technician at the dealer is very knowledgeable, has been extremely helpful and is trying to find the most cost effective solution. Rates are out of his control I'm sure.

 

[HeavyHauler]

The technician is saying that he doesn't recommend a self replacement because of two main reasons.



1) 20K+ PSI pressure system (very dangerous)

2) the keyway on the injector shaft can drop into the engine if you're not very careful - forcing the front of the engine to be disassembled to get the keyway back.

Of course the technician will tell you that - we've gotta remember that they're in this to make money, not save you money.

Also, from Dodge the Transfer Pump and Injector Pumps are under their "Star" system - i. e. even the dealer needs special permission to order the parts because of the cost. I'm told the dealer must do specific tests to prove that those parts are bad. I'm sure I can order the parts from aftermarket, but I don't know if the dealer will sell to me.

It's been my experience that Dodge dealers keep a supply of lift pumps on hand and can change them after completing various "primitive" tests. Injector pumps normally have to be ordered and then cleared by Chrysler before they are installed under warranty.



I guarantee you that the dealer will sell you either of the two pumps, for the right price. They don't need permission just to sell you the part. Once the part is out their door, their liability is over.

The $150 for the fuel filter is in the normal range I've paid when I've had a dealer change the fuel filter instead of doing it myself. Dodge dealers want $45-$50 for the filter and $75-$90 labor. Pep Boys auto charges about $32 for a fuel filter. Anyway, that's not the big problem here - the potential for $600 to $3,000 total if the dealer says both the Transfer Pump and Injector Pump need replacing.

You're totally getting ripped here. I could drive to California myself and change it for less than that covering fuel and a few Krystals!



Let us know what happens, Steve. Try to locate a few fellow members for some help. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here that live in your area.

 

[kscotay]

If you need a new lift pump, Cummins in San Leandro sells them for less than $150. The one for my 98. 5 that includes the wiring harness adapter is P/N 3990082. The Dodge dealer in Fremont charged a coworker $3500 to change his VP44, lift pump, tow and labor. In Salt Lake City (where I was finally towed to), Hinckley Dodge quotes $2000 for the VP44, and $300 to install. They installed a reman VP44 from Industrial Injection Services ($950 exchange) for the same $300.



I was getting ready to change it myself while I was sitting in the parking lot of the Ramada, but opted for the $300 solution.



Scott

 

[ox1]

On your 98. 5, if you have not changed the fuel connecting tubes, when you remove the fuel lines for the first time, the tubes MUST be changed. Dodge will not tell you this, they will expect you to come back when the fuel lines leak so they can charge you for another diagnosis and then rip you off on $85 worth of fuel tubes (the dealer will probably charge $85 for each tube, when you can purchase the new style for the price of one). QUOTE]



Is this a 98. 5 only thing? I haven't heard mention of this before.

 

[rkressg]

ox1,

Yes, replacing the fuel connecting tubes is only with the early 98. 5 trucks. They fixed this early in production. There is something on the tube that crushes during installation of those tubes. That style has since been redesigned. The newer fuel connecting tubes can be reused as long as there is no visable damage to them (I. E. a cracked tip), and they can be installed in the 98. 5 trucks.

-Rich