Injector test good but still white smoke

[Ozymandias]

@cerberusiam

I just know my Smarty and that one has the ability to go back to Stock, so yes, i expecting this as the standard, would never buy a product that doesn't offer this feature. Seems other tuners are a one way road, hit or miss.

 

[cerberusiam]

Any of them have the ability to load a stock program, it is whether they will load it correctly is the issue. The Smarty is the most reliable but have had it fail loading at times, luckily I have been able to start over and resolve the issue. Others have had to get a recovery file because of some glitch in the loading. This is not so Solus, WiTech, or other tools. They can and have left the ECM non-functional and left the owner having to pay for a new ECM. If you have heard stories of "the tuner fried your ECM" this is what happened. Nothing got fried but if it leaves the ECM in an unreadable state it will not reflash it, have to do a clean load onto a clean ECM. Without access to Tech Authority the complete loads are not easily obtainable.

Flashing thru the OBD port has its drawbacks so it is better to leave re-flash as a last resort.

 

[Lebo]

Cerberusiam, When I first bought this truck I took it to a dealer to see if they could tell me if it ever had a tuner. They told me that unless there is physical evidence they would have a hard time telling. I asked them about reflashing so I could start from scratch. They said basically the same thing as you. Said it might work, but if it doesn't work you just bought yourself a really big headache. I decided not to reflash. The mechanic I am using now found that it did have a Smarty on it at one time. Some message came up on my Edge screen that clued him in.

On another note, I am taking this truck back to the shop tomorrow and needed to pick up some materials before I leave it there for a week. Was towing about 9K pounds. 5K trailer and 4K materials. Had the P0148 and P1223 codes again. I really know I'm towing with that weight when trying to accelerate. Has a very small sweet spot. Seems best around 1800-2200RPM I think. If I let off for traffic and it drops down to 1500 you really feel the lug so I take it out of Tow/Haul and let it go to overdrive off until I get where I want it. Kinda sucks.

 

[Ozymandias]

Thanks Cerb for explaining, so I'm happy with my JR.
....and don't touch it until I have to.

 

[cerberusiam]

Had the P0148 and P1223 codes again.

Ruh-roh, you have a problem somewhere. The P0148 is a fueling check sum error, FCA, LP, RP Sensor, CP-3 is going TU, or injectors are worn bypassing too much fuel. P1223 is a leak detection error, basically says supplied fuel quantity based on FCA duty cycle exceeds injected fuel quantity by too wide a margin. Could be a failing FCA is the root for both or the LP is failing or injectors are worn out or you have software issues, any or all have been the root cause of those codes.

Now the fun begins, finding the real problem without just throwing parts at it.

With only 9k in tow even with stock injectors should be able to accelerate up a grade in OD with a good tune. However, if you mixed a Smarty tune left on it with and EFI tune all bets are off. Mixing tuners is a short trip on the hiway to hell. :O

A stock tune will defuel drastically under 1800 rpms unless the TQ management and timing gets adjusted. Sweet spot for power and economy on a 5.9 with the stock type tuning is 1900-2000 rpms, that is where you need to run them with a load for best results. Hard to do with that big jump to OD and speeds under 65 mph.

 

[Crunch]

Has a very small sweet spot. Seems best around 1800-2200RPM I think

I think that's the normal power band for most diesel pickups, though I thought the upper end was more like 2000RPM.

 

[cerberusiam]

I think that's the normal power band for most diesel pickups, though I thought the upper end was more like 2000RPM.

Depends on the engine, it varies with design and displacement. The BSFC is 1950 rpms on the CR engine, the TQ peak runs from 1900 out to 2800 with stock tuning. Towing heavy you want to be well on the front side of the TQ curve so 2100-2200 is a much better target. Need a custom tune to get them to perform under heavy loads in the 1900-2000 rpm range, they will tend to want drop off into lug really quickly at lower than 2000 rpms.

 

[Lebo]

Great. Anybody want to buy a 2007 5.9? Runs great on occasion. Can't even tell you are towing unless you tow more than 1000#.

Ceberusiam: What is "CP3 going to TU"?
"they will tend to want drop off into lug really quickly at lower than 2000 rpms." That is what mine does. I'm a little slow on this forum posting. Haven't tried to figure out the copy function.

I talked to Todd from TC Diesel over then phone. Good guy. He mentioned the FCA as well. Also mentioned a limiting valve. I don't know how much more I can throw at this thing. Body is in good shape. Guess that's a positive. But seriously, I think I might have to start looking for something else. I don't know. Hate to give up on it but it's really starting to get old. Been 5 years of on and off chasing some underlying issues(s) . I keep thinking the next fix is going to be the one.

 

[cerberusiam]

TU = Tango Uniform (Tits Up for the coarser crowd).

CP-3 going bad or LP going bad will cascade into false positives in the DTC's, FCA will do the exact same thing and there is no good way to tell until you run thru the test procedures. A known set of good injector sis the heart of the fuel system, you MUST address that. the FCA would be next for me once I validated the LP pressure is holding.

 

[Lebo]

Ok. Got it. I should have figured that out. Only has a 128K so hopefully is the FCA and not a CP-3. And the LP is lift pump? I have a FASS 150 less than a year old so I think I'm probably good there. Is Geno's the place to get a solid FCA?

 

[TCDiesel]

Ledo, DO NOT follow the directions that are pointing to anything, other than we discuss over the phone..Stay on the path we Talk about otherwise you will be wasting time.

Don't waste your $$$$ on directions that have no connection to your problem. If you need to follow up on our discussion just call Me

The only way to destroy the PCM/ECM is voltage spikes, Yes you can lock them up, I cannot recall NOT recovering any ECM/PCM even when they came to Me flat bedded to My Drive way.

 

[cerberusiam]

Ok. Got it. I should have figured that out. Only has a 128K so hopefully is the FCA and not a CP-3. And the LP is lift pump? I have a FASS 150 less than a year old so I think I'm probably good there. Is Geno's the place to get a solid FCA?

You would think the FASS being new would guarantee good pressure, only way to know is put a tapped banjo bolt on the CP-3 inlet and verify.

Genos source for FCA is fine, or TC Diesel.

 

[TCDiesel]

The OP been drag through the MUD, Spent 10s of Thousands and still does not have the Truck he's paid for.

He's the poster child why Diesel is getting such a bad rap....

 

[WalterJ]

Have you considered capping a single fuel line at a time to see if only one injector is the issue? I was thinking low compression might be a factor, but you checked that box. Good luck.

 

[Lebo]

Walter, thanks for the suggestion. We would have to put the injectors back in for a 2nd time and I don't have a lot of confidence in these injectors anymore so I am leaning towards replacing them. Had them in, swapped them out, put them back in, then took them out again. It's getting harder for me to spend more on labor at this point and I am down to thinking I just made a bad choice on the injector purchase a year ago. I know it runs rough at idle with my injectors in. This will be the second time I have replaced an injector(s) from this batch. But again, they bench tested good this time around. No one I'v talked to including the testing facility can really explain. I feel like I am taking a bit of a gamble buying another set of injectors since my others tested good but I don't have the skill set or time to trouble shoot it with this level of difficulty. And the labor troubleshooting is adding up. I replaced the FCA and Pressure at TC Diesels (big help and great guy) and others suggestion. Hopefully that will fix the code issues but I think those codes area a separate problem than he rough idle. Codes only pop when I tow and to try to accelerate up a hill. And only during a heavy tow so far. Anyway, I'll get it all figured out someday, maybe. If not guess I'll chalk it up to a really expensive mistake. Happy 4th of July to everybody.

 

[AH64ID]

How rough at idle?

What’s the engine load at idle with your injectors vs the borrowed ones?

 

[Lebo]

If anyone is interested, here is an update on my 2007 5.9. Big picture. One problem solved, another manifested/discovered. Quick summary: Initial problem was a rough idle and white smoke on idle. Injectors tested good but still had white smoke. Replaced all 6 injectors with brand new injectors. Smoke went away. Shop owner said he noticed I have a rail pressure issue now. Actual rail pressure is below commanded with aggressive acceleration. I drove the truck with a 5K trailer and noticed rail pressure stagnates around 18-20Kpsi with heavy acceleration. Mechanic put in a test CP3 (one off another truck) and there was no change. It also has a harder start but I think that might be the older FCA on the spare CP3. I didn't notice any hard starts after he replaced the injectors. I only noticed it today after driving it with the spare CP3. I don't know.

AH64ID: Sorry never saw your reply but that specific issue is now fixed with the new injectors.

Longer version. Last post left off trying to determine why my injectors tested good but I still had white smoke and a rough idle. I went to the shop a few weeks ago and the local Bosch injector test rep just happened to be there talking to the diesel shop owner. My mechanic explained to the Bosch rep that my injectors tested good on the bench but I still get white smoke. The rep agreed to test the injectors again. The test came back and I noticed the number six injector didn't test like the others and failed in 3 categories. Two categories made sense since they were 60hp over injectors but the third category didn't. Any way I sent the test results to the place I bought them from and they are not responding to any of my emails. Not even a courtesy of " Hey man, yeah they look good to me." Nada.

After a lot of debate, I ended up replacing (Cha Ching) all six injectors with brand new ones from a different recommended supplier. The white smoke is gone and it is idling smooth again but..... and the truck may have always been like this but after replacing the injectors the mechanic noticed that my rail pressures doesn't keep up with the commanded rail pressure. It seems to do fine under normal acceleration. I drove the truck with my 5k trailer and noticed the problem when I tried to pass a guy. I went to accelerate and the truck hit 18Kpsi and wouldn't go any higher. Down shifted and started to accelerate but all around 18Kpsi rail pressure. The truck felt like I had a governor on it. This may have been there all along. I don't know. I seriously doubt if I would have noticed it except my mechanic told me I have a rail pressure issue so I was looking for it.

I took it back to the shop and they did some trouble shooting, checking the torque on the injectors and tubes. They even put in a different Cp-3 pump from a shop truck to see if it made a difference. No change. Also, I don't know if is the older Cp3 pump from the parts truck but now I notice it has a harder time starting. Instead of starting right up it has to crank a few more times. So that is where I sit. Every time I think this is going to be the fix something else happens.

Any ideas. FCA on my CP3 and PRV was replaced as a precaution but right now the spare CP3 is on the truck for trouble shooting. Thanks Lance

 

[Ozymandias]

Mine shows the same Railpressure under load as yours.

 

[cerberusiam]

Not the first time that problem has come up. If all the hardware checks out staet thinking ecm issue.

 

[Lebo]

Ok guys thanks. I have always though this trucked lacked guts while towing. Maybe I have had this problem all along. I can floor it and not see 24kpsi. The mechanic rode along and had the truck hooked up to his diagnostic tool. Said it is commanding a lot more than it is delivering at higher throttle demands.