Injectors

[banshee]

Blake,



You forgot to add the 20% so you can compare numbers to the ones DD gets of their dynojet. 460*1. 2 = 552. There's your 50 extra hp right there.



John

 

[KLockliear]

Originally posted by JEly

Will your gains be better with injectors instead of a box? With the TTPM box there is a boost only setting and if you had injectors would you benefit more with that setup-------0 setting & DDI/DDII----instead of just the module

No, the injectors by themselves make 50 or so for Stage 1's, and 75 or so for Stage 2's, with no box (just boost fooling).



The TTPM by itself will do 65 or so. When you add injectors and the TTPM together, the compounded gain is higher.



The numbers we claim are usually a little lower than what the parts will really make, but I've yet to have a customer be upset that they got more than we claim.

 

[KLockliear]

Originally posted by XcumminsX

Why would anyone insist they are right when Kieth makes and sells injectors... And i get flamed all the time



Nick

Because they don't know any better. It's not the customers' fault really. I don't expect customers to dyno their trucks before and after (although we do that with every injector install here). If a vendor says it makes "X" power, you would hope he's not lying about it and it really makes that.



Of course, being a manufacturer and R&D center here, I know what we have found as to what can and can't be done (at least reliably). We did have injectors that made more power, but the truck would misfire as the CP3 can't keep up with their demand. I won't sell those to a customer, so we don't offer them. Also, we claim individual HP numbers, not combined numbers with other items. In the case of the 3G trucks, the injectors and box make more power together than the total of the two separately. Some vendors may claim a total package HP gain, but it would not be evenly split. TTPM 65HP, Stage 2's 75hp. Together with the turbo, the combination yields 180-200hp.

 

[d90boy]

Originally posted by KLockliear



We did have injectors that made more power, but the truck would misfire as the CP3 can't keep up with their demand.

That brings up a good question. What do you feel are the capabilities of the CP3? You were able to exceeds it's abilities with only injectors and no pressure increase? I read on Banks' project sidewinder info that the fuel system could supply fuel for up to 800hp. I wonder if this is the same pump as on the Dodge engines?

 

[KLockliear]

Even with rail pressure increases, we were able to exceed the capability of the CP3 to the point of misfire.

 

[thejeepdude]

Originally posted by KLockliear

Even with rail pressure increases, we were able to exceed the capability of the CP3 to the point of misfire.

At what HP level would you say this became an issue? I mean how big of injectors were you testing?

 

[KLockliear]

Over 100hp it's an issue. With the right circumstances, we can get a set of Stage 3's to do it too.

 

[Tomeygun]

hmm, just as i pull my credit card out to order injectors, the CP3 issue rears its ugly head... So keith, were you able to pull out a stumble/misfire with the TTPM and DDII's (like 180HP combo)??

 

[blake underwood]

Vaughn, I did dyno at that shop. You should stop by and dyno your truck sometime and check out some of their products, such as their diesel header. Thanks for the info. Keith about how combination horsepower works. What does not make sense to me though, is how can you dyno a truck with BIG injectors, and no electronics. I say this because 2gen's with 200+ hp injectors and no electronics when dynoed (such as my bro's truck) will not produce the HP the injectors put out, let alone it isn't even driveable with the box off.

 

[thejeepdude]

Originally posted by tomeygun

hmm, just as i pull my credit card out to order injectors, the CP3 issue rears its ugly head... So keith, were you able to pull out a stumble/misfire with the TTPM and DDII's (like 180HP combo)??

I think he meant "over 100HP injectors" not 100HP total power increase. I'm sure the DDII's are fine... that's probably what I'll end up with.

 

[Elite1]

Originally posted by blake underwood

Bone stock 260 HP-Dynojet SAE

Currently 460 HP-Dynojet SAE

How does a bone stock SO Dyno at 260 ?... . Those are approx. numbers I have seen posted from the stock HO's.

 

[SLinse]

how is the EGT's with the I, II's, and III's?? Could you still tow with II's and a box?

 

[d90boy]

EGTs would be too high with DDIIs and running a pressure box with everything else stock. You could play around unloaded in short bursts but I don't think you could use much of the power continuously. I ran this way for a week or so and EGTs could be sent through the roof at will with the box on.



Since I don't like the rail pressure boxes, mine is unplugged 99% of the time and just the boost fooler part is plugged in. Running on DDIIs alone with their turbo, intake, 4" exhaust, and ATS manifold, 950 is about as high as I can get it.

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Originally posted by SLinse

how is the EGT's with the I, II's, and III's?? Could you still tow with II's and a box?

The only way you will see real high EGT's with both is if you are towing at 85 mph. I have hauled real heavy with DDII's and The EZ on level 6. I can pull any grade, at 65 mph and stay under 1200*. High RPM's and a heavy foot while towing create high EGT's. Plus with the common rail trucks you can lift a little off the throttle and cool it off quick. Greg

 

[KLockliear]

Originally posted by blake underwood

Keith about how combination horsepower works. What does not make sense to me though, is how can you dyno a truck with BIG injectors, and no electronics. I say this because 2gen's with 200+ hp injectors and no electronics when dynoed (such as my bro's truck) will not produce the HP the injectors put out, let alone it isn't even driveable with the box off.

Then you are using the wrong injectors or something. Seriously, before the boxes were very popular (around 2000), we offered just injectors and a boost module. One of our most popular upgrades back in 01 was Stage 3's, an HX-40 and a boost module on an ETH. That combo made right at 350rwhp all day long, with no EGT problems towing.



Here's Scotty's (of Psychotty air fame) graph of his ETH back then:



#ad




Our TTPM offers a "0" power level so that the box does nothing with rail pressure. With the box turned off, it acts just like our old boost module. The HP gain with just a set of Stage 3 injectors in a 3G truck is just over 100hp.



#ad




The only electronics used was a "boost module". No rail pressure manipulation or anything else. Simply cap the V+ going to the ECM to limit boost feedback. The same truck shown above made 503hp just by turning on the TTPM to level 4.

 

[KLockliear]

Originally posted by tomeygun

hmm, just as i pull my credit card out to order injectors, the CP3 issue rears its ugly head... So keith, were you able to pull out a stumble/misfire with the TTPM and DDII's (like 180HP combo)??

2's are dead safe. 3's are marginal if you don't have good FP. Anything less than about 7psi and the 3's will misfire.

 

[KLockliear]

Originally posted by SLinse

how is the EGT's with the I, II's, and III's?? Could you still tow with II's and a box?

Not really. When the box turned off, Stage 2's work great with the turbo kit. Stage 3's you still have to watch the EGT if you're towing over 10k. There is about a 200* increase in EGT's from 2's to 3's.



You don't have to turn the box off though. I would definitely do it with an automatic; with a manual you can modulate it with your foot.

 

[KLockliear]

Originally posted by d90boy

Since I don't like the rail pressure boxes, mine is unplugged 99% of the time and just the boost fooler part is plugged in. Running on DDIIs alone with their turbo, intake, 4" exhaust, and ATS manifold, 950 is about as high as I can get it.

What kind of box do you have? When you say it is unplugged, do you mean you are unplugging the rail pressure connection?

 

[d90boy]

I have your TTPM, and by unplugged I mean the rail pressure connection. Should I keep it connected and have the box on the 0 setting?

 

[XcumminsX]

How about someone like me who does not tow at all. . Will i be able to run DD3's along with a timing/duration box like the tst or new edge? I will also be using a bigger turbo (whatever DD comes out with)



Nick