Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) Input needed on possible custom tuning product

[Jdonoghue]

Time to pick your brains a bit...



If you've been following the Inside the ECU thread, you know I've been working on figuring out the Cummins programming for a while.

I'd like to see how much interest there is in a system that would allow you to do your own modifications to the truck's programming. This is similar to the EFILive stuff the Duramax crowd has, but limited by the capabilities of the vp44 - I don't think there is any more horsepower available than any other product out there that does not tap the pump wire.



In its simplest form, the product could consist of the editor software, the download software, and the USB cable to connect the PC/laptop to the truck's OBD connector.



A more complex approach would be to create a handheld 'box' that you transfer your custom file to, and the box would plug into the OBD connector to download the file to the truck.



Please be aware that this setup would ONLY be for engine tuning, it is not capable of doing anything in the PCM (ABS, tire size, etc. )



Thoughts? Suggestions?

 

[EagleEye]

I vote for the simple one...

Been following, and would like to play with the files (for a LONG time now). The simpler... the better. If I am toying with the ECM, I would rather have the computer in the cab with me than downloading to a 'black box' and taking it to the truck.



Let us know... there are ALOT of people who have been following these types of mods for a long time now. Even clear back to Marco's hack (which he never released, and made a few bucks on), and even to TST's Insite days.



We are anxiously awaiting any info.

 

[timbo]

I vote for the laptop in the cab to make it easier to dial it to my personal . I have an 86 twin turbo mustang with an AEM programmable computer sitting waiting to go in. I've been studying it for a while now navigating through the different maps. It's alot to take in but once you learn it, it's pretty awesome. You can tweak anything and watch everything thats going on in real time.

 

[GOT-Torque]

My vote is to keep it simple and use a laptop.



However, I think the real money would be in the market for the 3rd gens. I would imagine alot of your research into a 2nd gen ECM would help out with the 3rd gen inner workings.



A 2nd gen truck is still limited by the injection pump and I would think most of the potential buyers of an "EFIlive" like tuning program would be the max hp, max rpm competition crowd (just my opinion). I've heard there are stand alone tuning programs out there for a 3rd gen engine however the price starts in the $8000 range...



You wouldn't have to sell many programs to make your hard efforts worth it though...

 

[Jdonoghue]

My vote is to keep it simple and use a laptop.



However, I think the real money would be in the market for the 3rd gens. I would imagine alot of your research into a 2nd gen ECM would help out with the 3rd gen inner workings.



A 2nd gen truck is still limited by the injection pump and I would think most of the potential buyers of an "EFIlive" like tuning program would be the max hp, max rpm competition crowd (just my opinion). I've heard there are stand alone tuning programs out there for a 3rd gen engine however the price starts in the $8000 range...



You wouldn't have to sell many programs to make your hard efforts worth it though...

I'd need to get a 3rd gen truck and a spare ECM first. Right now, I have 2 vp44 trucks and a 6. 7L truck. The 6. 7 is 'off limits' for a while, though.

 

[Cummins Thunder]

I would be VERY interested!! I would also want control over the transmission... But thats in the PCM? Right?

 

[Jdonoghue]

I would be VERY interested!! I would also want control over the transmission... But thats in the PCM? Right?

Correct. The transmission is controlled by the PCM.

 

[Jdonoghue]

So far, it looks like the way to go is a laptop cable/software package. This would provide the following functions:



1. Ability to reflash the ECU.

2. Diagnostic and data logging capabilities.

3. Ability to temporarily download changes to the ECU for test purposes.



#3 would allow users to make changes 'on-the-fly', then once they are satisfied with the changes they could reflash the ECU to make the changes 'permanent'.



At the moment, the software I'm using to talk to the truck through the cable is all custom-written and runs on Linux only. This software will have to be ported over to Windows. I will make it available for either, in case there's others out there that are not running Windows.



The ECU editor is a freely-available project and can be found here: RomRaider - Open Source ECU Tools | RomRaider / Rom Raider



The next most important piece is the definition files that allow the ECU editor to work with the Cummins CM551 flash files. These files will be made available online.



With these tools, a user will be able to take the stock flash file and modify it using the ECU editor. Perhaps I should set up a forum/message board so users can share ideas, etc.



Support will be provided for the hardware (cable) and the download/logger software ONLY. Modifications to the flash files will be at your own risk.



There will be some kind of documentation provided describing what the various maps and parameters do, and guidelines to follow to keep from blowing stuff up.

 

[Cummins Thunder]

This thread seems kind of dead for somthin with potential to be such a great product.

 

[Jdonoghue]

This thread seems kind of dead for somthin with potential to be such a great product.

There has been interest from a few people, on several forums. Probably less than 15 so far, though. The hardware (cable and board) isn't going to be expensive to develop. The expensive part is getting someone to port the downloader/logger software from Linux to Windows. I am not a Windows programmer (I have enough headaches already) - I do embedded stuff like engine controllers, and high-end mainframe stuff.



Maybe there will be more interest if I can show everyone how to fuel hard all the way up to 4000 RPM.

 

[AKAMAC]

We have a contractor at work that is doing our propietary software conversion to the Logix 5000 system. I can run this by him and see if this is something he is interested in. Most patches can be run through SQL server and that is his speciality. I'll ask on wendsday. This looks like it could be fun stuff with the right interface.

On a side note; when are you going to hack the PCM.

Mike

 

[Timbeaux38]

the last Jig that I saw that hacked an ECU with a laptop got the creator a nice letter from Cummins' Legal department. IMO, if we could see the big gains that the Duramaxes see with EFI, I would be all over it... . unfortunately we have 24v trucks. I don't know what tuning software could do that has not already been done.

 

[Cummins Thunder]

After speaking with Quadzilla today I think they are gonna pretty much have this covered with their custom tuning software for the Adrenaline.

But I would like a program for my PCM

 

[Jdonoghue]

the last Jig that I saw that hacked an ECU with a laptop got the creator a nice letter from Cummins' Legal department.

If you're referring to TST, they were using Cummins software to reprogram the ECU.



I am not using anybody's software or tools but my own to reprogram the ECU. This is no different than the J2534 Reflashing tools available anywhere that are used to reflash vehicles with manufacturer flash files.



So, a cable, and a reflashing utility is NOT illegal, nor does it violate any kind of nonexistent 'software license'. It is simply another diagnostic tool just like any kind of code-scanner, or programmer.



Modification or tuning of the stock files? I'm not tuning anything - I am giving instructions on how people can tune their own stock files if they want to.



From a legal standpoint, the product is nothing more than a diagnostic tool and a manual that tells you how things work.

 

[Jdonoghue]

After speaking with Quadzilla today I think they are gonna pretty much have this covered with their custom tuning software for the Adrenaline.

But I would like a program for my PCM

1. The ECU itself has taken a lot of time. I don't see doing PCMs anytime soon. The 6. 7 ECU will come before any PCM hacking.
   
2. From what I've read, the Adrenaline is a good product, and if people want to go that route, more power to them.
   
3. Because the tuning aspects will be 'do it yourself', the cable/reflash sofware will be priced considerably less than most of the products on the market today.
   

 

[Timbeaux38]

If you're referring to TST, they were using Cummins software to reprogram the ECU.

I am not using anybody's software or tools but my own to reprogram the ECU. This is no different than the J2534 Reflashing tools available anywhere that are used to reflash vehicles with manufacturer flash files.

So, a cable, and a reflashing utility is NOT illegal, nor does it violate any kind of nonexistent 'software license'. It is simply another diagnostic tool just like any kind of code-scanner, or programmer.

Modification or tuning of the stock files? I'm not tuning anything - I am giving instructions on how people can tune their own stock files if they want to.

From a legal standpoint, the product is nothing more than a diagnostic tool and a manual that tells you how things work.

It wasn't TST, and Cummins can send mean letters to whoever they like :-laf
the person I am talking about had a setup somewhat similar to what you are talking about and got a letter. You can call it modifying stock files all you want, but it is tuning... . plain and simple.

 

[Jdonoghue]

It wasn't TST, and Cummins can send mean letters to whoever they like :-laf

the person I am talking about had a setup somewhat similar to what you are talking about and got a letter. You can call it modifying stock files all you want, but it is tuning... . plain and simple.

The TST situation was the only one I was aware of that involved any kind of legal action taking place. You're right - Cummins can send threating letters to whoever they like.



As far as I know, there's no law that prevents someone from tuning their own stuff. Just as there's no law that prevents me from hacking my own copy of Windows and changing all of the icons. Now, I couldn't sell or distribute that copy of Windows to anyone, but I am still within my rights if I decide to write an article telling others how they can do it themselves.

 

[PRout]

Very interested. .

Running both RH & SUSE linux natively & in virtual machines on my laptops. Running sw without windoze shouldn't be a problem, but definitely not a sw guru here. Just have a little perl experience.

It would be nice to be able to add a touch of timing, & turn off the 20psi boost limit though. Maybe lighten up the off idle throttle response a bit if possible.

I too have been following your work here and have been staying on the sidelines because it's mostly way over MY head. . Very nice work indeed...

 

[Jdonoghue]

It would be nice to be able to add a touch of timing, & turn off the 20psi boost limit though. Maybe lighten up the off idle throttle response a bit if possible.

This is exactly the kind of thing that I'm hoping to address with a product such as this.



Unfortunately, I haven't had a lot of free time lately, so things have stalled for a bit. I have a couple of ideas, though, and I'll post them here after I think through them a bit.