interesting find after pulling injectors

[JStieger]

Pulled my injectors this morning and found #5 connector tube was all carboned up where it sits about third of the way into the head. All the rest of the tubes looked fantastic.



So I cleaned off the carbon and found the tube to be severely pitted!



I am wondering if it wasn't torqued properly and combustion gases and/or rail pressure escaped?



The injectors looked good with equal amounts of carbon. #5 had maybe a hair more carbon on the injector tip.



Here are some pictures:



#5 second from top:



#ad




carboned up:



#ad




cleaned up to show pitting:



#ad




#ad

 

[WUnderwood]

hmmmm



where you blowing white smoke or was it missing any?



just curious, why did you pull the injectors?

 

[JStieger]

No white smoke or missing. No diesel in oil per 3 oil analyses the past 12 months. The truck did the 596 HP like this.



I'm changing out my injectors for something different... :-laf

 

[grfraz]

you had no diesel in your fuel, bummer :-laf

 

[MMeier]

JS, how many miles on these?

 

[RobertP]

the only way this could happen would be. there was a leak at the contact portion of the tube, letting fuel get by, your transfer tube seal got over pressured or was not in good shape, and your cylinder head was hot enough to burn the fuel that had gone to the end of the tube. your tubes should all be a 40lbs or better to properly seal that tube to the injector, mainly because of higher fuel psi over stock.

 

[Luken]

JStieger,



What injectors are you putting in the truck?

 

[JStieger]

you had no diesel in your fuel, bummer :-laf

It was a long day, OK? :-laf

JS, how many miles on these?

Just under 25,000 miles

the only way this could happen would be. there was a leak at the contact portion of the tube, letting fuel get by, your transfer tube seal got over pressured or was not in good shape, and your cylinder head was hot enough to burn the fuel that had gone to the end of the tube.

That's what I was thinking too. Last year I popped my rail relief valve, replaced it, and still had a leak somewhere. I found that #1 injector line was leaking and that the sealing surface was scored so I replaced it. The leak persisted somewhere from the intake horn to the rear of the block. I got fed up and took it to Cummins and they went over all the fuel lines for proper torque. So I think the pitting damage already started previous to this then when it wasn't getting the proper seal anymore it started carboning up.



From that event I finally decided that me and only me were going to be the only person to work on my truck. That way if I screw up I can only blame myself.

 

[JStieger]

JStieger,



What injectors are you putting in the truck?

I finally decided on Don M Flux 2's. I've been toying with this thought for a few months and started talking to lots of TDR and DTR people, EDM and honed injector vendors included. Of the people I talked to, I put more weight on the folks' opinions that have run both EDM and honed injectors versus the folks that have run only EDM injectors or only honed injectors.



The thought of having new nozzles with optimized hole placement appealed to me, especially with the mods we run that advance timing electronically or with fuel pressure. There's a post on the 12 valve forum that Jim Fulmer did that showed the injector spray pattern on a modded truck. The spray pattern was outside the bowl because the injector wasn't matched to the engine mods. I want something that is matched, in theory, to my engine mods!



The two vendors that do this (new nozzles with new holes) are Don M and Bosio. Bosio is very well respected in the international TDI world and European common rail world, but somewhat unknown in our small Cummins world. Yet my DD3 injectors I had before my 3-flows had Bosio Sprint tips. Bosio tips are also found on some II injectors depending on supply-and-demand. The Bosios were not on my 3-flows, but what I do know is that when I had DD3 with the Bosio's my mileage was about 0. 5 mpg better than my similarly sized 3-flows with Bosch tips. So this tells me that Bosio must be doing something very right; they just don't have the brand ID here with the Cummins. The other vendor is of course Don M and after deciphering his technical explanations with my university engineering text books by my side, I decided that he would get my $$.



I just hope I get what I pay for! Don was actually trying to steer me towards Flux 1's for meeting or beating my current power levels, but the modded CP3 was the wild card since 1's weren't targeted for a modded CP3 in particular. Look at Gypsyman, AK Ram, Banshee, Idaho CTD for verifiable proof that Flux 1's work.



... And if you know me I dyno a lot just because I'm an engineer and always have suspicion unless I see things with my own eyes! I intend to dyno on the exact same settings as when I dynoed and posted results with twins, modded CP3, and 3-flows...

 

[evldsl]

COOL write up

 

[Lightman]

I think you will find that is not carbon but grease oil and water and rust pitted that part of the tube is not sealed from the out side of the engine nor does it seal fuel pressure at that point when you wash your engine water can seep in. I run Flux 2 injectors they gave me horse power but I did not like the smoke so I pulled them and put my stock injectors back in. The Flux 2 injectors are 5 hole nozzles on the 305/555 engines and the nozzel were Bosio nozzles.

 

[WCounts]

I finally decided on Don M Flux 2's. I've been toying with this thought for a few months and started talking to lots of TDR and DTR people, EDM and honed injector vendors included. Of the people I talked to, I put more weight on the folks' opinions that have run both EDM and honed injectors versus the folks that have run only EDM injectors or only honed injectors.



The thought of having new nozzles with optimized hole placement appealed to me, especially with the mods we run that advance timing electronically or with fuel pressure. There's a post on the 12 valve forum that Jim Fulmer did that showed the injector spray pattern on a modded truck. The spray pattern was outside the bowl because the injector wasn't matched to the engine mods. I want something that is matched, in theory, to my engine mods!



The two vendors that do this (new nozzles with new holes) are Don M and Bosio. Bosio is very well respected in the international TDI world and European common rail world, but somewhat unknown in our small Cummins world. Yet my DD3 injectors I had before my 3-flows had Bosio Sprint tips. Bosio tips are also found on some II injectors depending on supply-and-demand. The Bosios were not on my 3-flows, but what I do know is that when I had DD3 with the Bosio's my mileage was about 0. 5 mpg better than my similarly sized 3-flows with Bosch tips. So this tells me that Bosio must be doing something very right; they just don't have the brand ID here with the Cummins. The other vendor is of course Don M and after deciphering his technical explanations with my university engineering text books by my side, I decided that he would get my $$.



I just hope I get what I pay for! Don was actually trying to steer me towards Flux 1's for meeting or beating my current power levels, but the modded CP3 was the wild card since 1's weren't targeted for a modded CP3 in particular. Look at Gypsyman, AK Ram, Banshee, Idaho CTD for verifiable proof that Flux 1's work.



... And if you know me I dyno a lot just because I'm an engineer and always have suspicion unless I see things with my own eyes! I intend to dyno on the exact same settings as when I dynoed and posted results with twins, modded CP3, and 3-flows...

Sounds like you have a bit of experience with different injectors. I like my stock injectors and don't plan on changing them till I start having trouble. They say the 04. 5 injectors aren't too bad. But I would probley go with what Don M recommended.

 

[JStieger]

The Flux 2 injectors are 5 hole nozzles on the 305/555 engines and the nozzel were Bosio nozzles.

Lightman-



Please clarify... were the "Flux 2" nozzles on your injectors Bosio's? That doesn't make sense to me because all I've read and heard about is that Don M uses custom blank nozzles to start with (as does Bosio).



In fact, when someone posts about F1 using blank nozzles, Charlie of KermaTDI usually posts to the effect of, "F1 is not the only one!"



Anyhow, I'm OK on the connector tubes. I had 6 new ones just in case so now I just have to go into my new parts stash. Man, come to think of it, if I started selling off my parts stash I could make some serious coin!!!

 

[Lightman]

Lightman-



Please clarify... were the "Flux 2" nozzles on your injectors Bosio's? That doesn't make sense to me because all I've read and heard about is that Don M uses custom blank nozzles to start with (as does Bosio).



In fact, when someone posts about F1 using blank nozzles, Charlie of KermaTDI usually posts to the effect of, "F1 is not the only one!"



Anyhow, I'm OK on the connector tubes. I had 6 new ones just in case so now I just have to go into my new parts stash. Man, come to think of it, if I started selling off my parts stash I could make some serious coin!!!

I my be wrong about Bosio but the nozzles are italian made I changed 2 of them to different bodys and they have an italian name on them. I have one connector tube that looks just like the one in the picture it works just fine.

 

[JStieger]

My Flux 2 are showing up tomorrow - can't wait!