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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Interesting find for those of us with big tires

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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) No Boost!! Help

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i have been down the road of the track bar, alignment, DSS, new steering box, and all that stuff. the front end guy i go to says everything seems tight, and that he doesn't think anything is worn to the point of needing replacement. So anyhow, i generally run 33x12. 5 mud type tires, and the truck pulls to the left, wonders down the road, can't center the steering wheel... all the same front end problems others seem to be having. About a month ago i put my stock tires and wheels on (245/75) because the alignment shops in my area can't fit my truck on the machine with the big tires. He says every thing looks good, no adjustments made, everything is in spec. so i have been running the stock tires for about 1000 miles, truck handles ok, steers better, steering wheel is centered. today i put the big tires back on, and immediately the truck pulls, wonders, and is back to its old tricks



I guess what my point is after all of that, is that maybe we are a little to quick to say that the steering is real bad, especially if we are running big tires... i think that is 90% of my problem anyhow. This is not to say other parts go bad too... i have a new steering box and track bar under warrenty that were bad... but tires seem like they have a lot to do with it at this point.
 
I'd have to agree with that. I have 315/75/16's - all but a 35" tire... on anything other than perfectly flat road (i. e. no grooves, etc) - it'll pull to the left, etc - jut like yours. However, on a nice piece of road - she is dead straight.



And the entire front end components have been replaced - just the cost of running big tires!



Jay
 
Mine has 315/12. 5/16 muds. Mine pulls to the right. I hate driving down a straight road with the steering wheel corrected to the left. It centers when I drive in the left lane of a divided highway due to the road pitching left.
 
alignment

Do you run stock or aftermarket rims? A different offset could change camber settings due to increased leverage.
 
good thought WestTN... they are aftermarket rims, but are supposed to have the correct back-spacing... i would have to go measure to be sure though.
 
I believe that tread pattern has a lot to do with the handling aspects. When it came time for me to replace the stock Mich A/S's I went with an aggressive tread similar to BFG's that you see all the time (forget the model)-- Anyway, the handling was AWFUL! Took it back to Big O and the tech said that with long wheelbase trucks and a heavy front end (read as: diesel engine) that caused the wander and fishtailing that I was experiencing was very common. They replaced them no questions asked with a set of Mich's M/S. All tires were/ are of stock size: 265's

Moral of the story with my experience: all things being equal 'cept for tread design caused my problems. I will stick with a more conservative tread.
 
Originally posted by WestTN

Do you run stock or aftermarket rims? A different offset could change camber settings due to increased leverage.



If the different offset is causing a change in camber you've got bigger problems to be dealing with.....



Brian
 
Get it aligned with the bigger tires on, When you change tire size you will change at least the toe in of the truck. Look into a big truck shop they might be able to do it. With the change in toe you might also be changing the thrust angle or set back.
 
How does bigger tires change your toe in? Never heard that before. Your tires should be true on the rim regaurdless of size or brand. Not seeing this. Maybe you explain it to me. Maybe I don't know any better.
 
The pull to the left or right can be corrected with shimable ball joints and if you've got a good alignment shop they will know that and should've told you that. As for the different handling it's pretty obvious when you think about it, you've added a bigger lever onto your axles, any force placed upon your tires like an off camber (pitched road) will be exagerrated through the front end components. For example a slightly worn track bar will feel quite worn because of the extra leverage placed upon it by the bigger tires.
 
Cummins pilot take two sticks any length and set them down and set the toe on them. Now extend the sticks and inch or two and remeasure the toe. Another way put your elbows at your side and put your finger tips together, you make a V, just like your toe setting (just a lot more angel). Now look at your wrist that is where your toe is with a 245 tire when you go to 285s now its at your finger tips(Hard to explain doing my best). When you change toe you change the front and the back at one time, so if you add 1/8 toe in in the front you also just toed out the back by 1/8 for an adjustment of 1/4. When I did alignments on big trucks I would ask if they were going to change tires because it would change the alignment from what I set.
 
I don't think it's fair to lump everyone with "Larger then stock tires" into the the same group. As mentioned the amount of back space will play a huge role in how a truck rides and responds to every crack in the freeway. There are two many factors to figure in, to narrow the list of problem causes. People that run larger tires also usually have a modified suspension, lifted. Also the larger the tire the more if weighs, mud type tires can easily weigh twice what a stock tire would. That is a huge change to double the weight attached to the end of a axle! People that have lifted trucks and or larger tires also seem to play harder and dirtier then others. This along with a suspension that is struggling with more leverage and weigh, will wear much faster then a truck that only commutes every day to work on a paved road.

The tires obviously play a part in contributing to the ride and handling of any truck. But I think many owners are also to blame for much of there problems. I see trucks all the time that have very obvious front-end problems, some have larger then stock tires, while other don't. Parts wear and in time need to be replaced, shocks fail, ball joints become lose , tie-rods get sloppy and bearings don't last for ever. Also the steering box wears, when this happens you will notice alot of "Sloop" in the wheel, a dead space when the wheel is turned from right to left. There is an adjustment that can be made to correct some of this, it's as simple as turning in a screw on the steering box.

I have a 3500 with over sized mud tires, both BFG MT's and Trxus M/T's. The two sets of tires could not be more "UN-alike" then they are. The BFG's are made of a very hard rubber compound, the sidewalls are extremely stiff and barely show a bulge when running low (10-15) air pressure. On the road they have a firm feel with a stiff ride, noise is noticeable and highway bumps and cracks are felt. The Trxus tires are very,very smooth, they are made from a very soft rubber compound that soaks up every pot hole and crack, the ride is excellent. Noise is also much less with this tire, to the point of not hearing them period, they have a very aggressive tread, but no thumpedy thump while driving. Point is both tires are over sized, very heavy and both have a very aggressive mud type tread pattern, but neither one poise a steering problem. My truck does not wander, pull, shimmy, or wobble,so if mine drives fine others should be able to also. I also have a Ford that runs a very large tire, it to drives fine but not near as well as the Dodge. I think there are 3 or 4 areas that might get overlooked that can help most keep there truck driving straight and wobble free. First the front end has to be mechanically sound, nothing can operate like it was designed to with worn,damaged, or bent parts. Tires have to been in balance, the importance of that balance becomes magnified when oversize tires are used. A good, first run, quality tire will need 2-3 onces of weight to balance it out. I have seen tires that were over a pound out of balance, thats 16 ounces! That much weight is all but impossible to ever achieve a good balance, and should be returned to the manufacturer. Also be careful where you buy your tires from, many "GOOD DEALS" are not so good, tires are made in lots of 50,000 and a 10-15 % blemish or out of standard (balance) rate is not unusual. These seconds, Blemished, less then perfect tires are sold as lots, and show up in many parts of the country as unbelievable sales, or once in a life time deals, they might not be such a good deal. Balance is important, and should not be skipped then the tires are mounted. There are also companies that make balance beads that go into the tires and others like Centramatics that make balance rings that mount on the studs, both seem to make a difference. I use the Centramatics, and when combined with the normal balance, make for a very smooth ride. Next would be the importance of the steering stabilized. Most Dodges come with a small factory steering stabilizer, but it is marginal at best with stock tires, when large meats are used till becomes useless. Rancho, Tuff Country,Skyjacker all make good steering stabilizers, I ran a single Rancho for a while then switched to a Skyjacker dual in-line unit, the difference was very noticeable and I feel part reason for my good steering effect.
 
y-knot, you are very correct in what you have written, however i was simply pointing out that it is obvious that tires can and will play a large role in the handling and suspension of any given vehicle independent of whether or not the suspension is lifted, modified, or otherwise altered.
 
I agree that the tires play a big role in how the truck handles. However, in my case, my truck pulled to the right and wandered with the stock tires. Since I put on the MT/Rs, about 17000 miles ago, my truck doesn't pull or wander.
 
Mine wanders sitting still, sometimes I'll park it in one spot and the next morning it will be in another. And it was that way brand spankin new. A note to all new and used truck buyers, DRIVE THE DARN THING ON THE HIGHWAY. I've tried the stockers, good gas mileage long life, also some procomp M/T's, no difference. I have, new steering box, shocks, DSS, DT Track bar, ... ... ... ... ... .



Y-NOT where did you get the dual in line??
 
An observation and a question:



Observation - If the rim doesn't change (or the backspacing is stock) then the lever arm is not increased by going to larger tire - the force is increased because you have a larger/wider contact patch but the force is (should be) acting thru the same point.



Question - When setting toe where is the measurement taken from? The OD of the tire or a different point that is not affected by tire diameter? With larger diameter/wider tires you will need more toe-in to compensate for the larger force acting on the tie rod trying to straighten out the wheels.



Brian
 
the guy i go to uses a laser device that attaches to and lines up with the rim, the tire is totally excluded from the calculation. hmmm, maybe that is part of the problem??
 
I havent though hard about the subject, but I have figured out a way to fix the whole front end problem. First off cut out the coils and put some leaf springs under it. Then if still not satisfied put a ferd high pinion 60 under it(it has one piece axle shafts. Not crappy two piece designed ones). Then there is nothin to go bad except maybe a kingpin rebuild every 100,000 miles. Now does this sound like a good fix er what. This way if the springs are gettin to were they sag just a few more leafs in. Who cares if the ride is rough. Mine rides like crap cause its a ton truck.
 
Sounds like you should have bought a Ford. I also care if it rides bad, Mine is a 3500 as well and rides very nice, That was always the main reason for any mods. It's a cop out to say because it's a one ton it should ride bad. Along with all the mods I have made to the back of the truck, I can honestly say it is the best riding pick-up truck I have ever ridden in. And even rides better then most cars. Dodge did a great job designing the front coil spring suspension on the Ram, it is durable, easy to work on and lift, and give a much better ride then leaf springs. Parts wear out, and for those that chose not to not keep up with the maintenance needs of their truck, they will experience handling issues.
 
Originally posted by Mopar Man1

I havent though hard about the subject, but I have figured out a way to fix the whole front end problem. First off cut out the coils and put some leaf springs under it. Then if still not satisfied put a ferd high pinion 60 under it(it has one piece axle shafts. Not crappy two piece designed ones). Then there is nothin to go bad except maybe a kingpin rebuild every 100,000 miles. Now does this sound like a good fix er what. This way if the springs are gettin to were they sag just a few more leafs in. Who cares if the ride is rough. Mine rides like crap cause its a ton truck.



I'll take coils over leaves any day of the week for a daily driven truck.



Brian
 
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