Internal Coolant Leak

[msimmons]

GWD:



That temp rise you speak of is not abnormal. I noticed that my normal temp during the summer months with no A/C on is about 200 and will rise when towing our RV up a long incline can go up to 210 or so. That's just an indication of the engine working harder.



Mike

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Pipe plugs?

I just had another thought guys that may explain part of the coolant loss.



A lot of guys, myself included, have had coolant seepage around the pipe plugs along the passenger side of the valve cover. If you see pinkish reside then you've been having a bit of coolant loss here. I haven't had to add any coolant to mine but did have a bit of seepage which I solved by tightening them up (they were quite loose! Don't reef on them though, they shouldn't be super tight). Just another idea to look into.



Another point of seepage may be around the block heater.



Vaughn

 

[DPKetchum]

Having to add to the bottle from timer to time is not that unusal in my book.

 

[boonsur]

May be a completely stupid question, but...

what kind of oil are you using. Could it be a blend that has Potassium (I really don't know if, or why, it might??? )?



If you're a dealer, is the oil in a bulk container? Could it have somehow been contaminated? Would it be worth trying a different brand?

 

[msimmons]

DP:



Agreed! To add a little coolant from time to time is not unusual, which is what I've done... . perhaps a pint or two in just a little under one year.



I haven't noticed any seepage anywhere and I've looked it over pretty carefully top and bottom.



The original oil analysis was of the factory fill. I don't know who the current oil vendor is for D/C but I would suspect it is one of the majors. The second oil analysis was using Delo 400 15W-40 which is what I have been using. We have bulk oil in the shop for the gassers but we don't use it for the diesels. I'm not aware of Delo having a higher potassium content than other oils. Surely if this were the case, it would have become an issue before now.



Mike

 

[msimmons]

Just an update on the high potassium levels in my UOA. They have continued and now at 30K miles I have replaced the engine oil cooler at the suggestion of the folks at Cummins. I drained the oil for sampling and changed the oil and filter at this time. I will pull a sample in about 5K miles and see if the high potassium is still there and will report back

 

[WNowlan]

Are you showing glycol in the oil?



I would suggest that you send this to a reasearch type lab instead of a production lab for verification of the results. You should contact ChevronTexaco and talk with them about your problem, if you are still using Delo 400.



What are the additive metals/wear metals showing on this sample? Does the lab you use have a current reference sample of Delo 400? With the recent formulation changes that have occured it is possible they need to update the references.



Long term weeping of glycol into the oil will cause the oil to sludge up. It will lead to a premature failure of the engine.

 

[bzingre]

I've had the same problem since the truck was new. I have not seen any coolant loss. There is the same about of coolant that the truck came with. So who knows. But a least I'm not the only one. I don't think it is a Head Gasket either. Maybe a small leak at the oil cooler. Unless Potassium increases, I'm going to leave it alone.

 

[Mr. Hemi]

Pringles in my oil too!

I just recieved my oil analysis back from Pennzoil and had "Abnormal" Potassium level in the oil. This was at 8000 miles, the Potassium reading was 35 PPM, everything else was normal.

They noted it could be an additive to coolant also.



I marked the coolant reservoir at new and the level has not changed.



I will post the analysis numbers later when I pull them from the truck file.

 

[Gauthier]

msimmons:



Did the oil cooler replacement solve the high K problem?

 

[msimmons]

Your timing is uncanny! I just (last week) changed my oil at 37. 5K and received the analysis from Blackstone. My potassium level has dropped to its lowest level ever (18ppm) since the replacement of the oil cooler. This reading is significantly lower than any previous readings, so I suspect that the oil cooler "may" have been the culprit. I examined the old cooler carefully with a loupe and could not detect any signs of leakage though. Interestingly, the new cooler had a superceded P/N from the old one indicating that either the cooler design had changed somewhat or Cummins is using a different vendor. There were slight visual differences in the coolers, but none that would address a potential leakage problem. The new cooler came in a box stamped "Made in China" (damn!).



Another point in the UOA that I found interesting was that the values for Boron and Molybdenum has jumped dramatically indicating the change in the Delo 400 formulation from CI4 to CI4+. The previous "average" for Moly was 30ppm and the new test showed 237ppm. The previous "average" for Boron was 43ppm and the new test showed 128ppm.



In the most recent test, all the wear metals were lower than previous tests which is a good thing. All in all, I am pleased with this most recent report. I suspect that when I next test the oil at 45K, I will find that the potassium will read even lower. I will report back at that time.



Mike

 

[Treb]

high Potassium

I've now had 4 oil samples on my '03 and this is the highest Potassium yet. . . I think it was 63. . . each sample has flagged potassium. . . I talked to one of the Lube experts at Cummins and he told me that all US coolants contain Sodium, but that not all of them contain potassium. He said if I had potassium without sodium that it wasn't coolant. . .



really interested in finding out of the oil cooler keeps those potassium numbers down. . . maybe he didn't know what he was talking about. . . i know that Cummins has had problems on the industrial construction equipment "B" series engines with the oil coolers

 

[Russknh]

I'll tell you how I do this on larger engines,the secret is to drop the oil pan which is hard to do on smaller trucks but is easier in big rigs and most construction eq. I leave everything connected on the engine and the coolant level full. Drop the pan and raise the pressure as high as the system will permit (usualy 15 lbs) and watch for leaks from below, even small ones show up pretty well -if this does not work go to a blacklight type dye and turn off the lights and do it again. I have found many small leaks over the last 30 years and several that the dealers had given up on.

 

[nickleinonen]

I'll tell you how I do this on larger engines,the secret is to drop the oil pan which is hard to do on smaller trucks but is easier in big rigs and most construction eq. I leave everything connected on the engine and the coolant level full. Drop the pan and raise the pressure as high as the system will permit (usualy 15 lbs) and watch for leaks from below, even small ones show up pretty well -if this does not work go to a blacklight type dye and turn off the lights and do it again. I have found many small leaks over the last 30 years and several that the dealers had given up on.

i do this at work too, but my engines are large enough that i can open the crankcase hand hole covers and if i wanted, stick my head in the engine [and on the emd engines, you can see inside the cylinder through the ports in the liner] 35psi emd engines, 20psi ge engines pressure testing the systems...