Is a WDH needed?

[GAmes]

I use a Reese Dual Cam Sway control WD hitch. Definitely has increased centering force if the trailer is not centered behind the tow vehicle. I have a lot of tounge weight on my TT (1825).

What other WD hitch have you used to tow that trailer to make a comparison? I've used a Reese duel cam. Just another overpriced hitch IMO.

 

[Kirwin]

I have used a standard Reese WD hitch on this trailer. This is just my opinion. I like the idea that a WD hitch can have some sway benefits. The design is simple and easy to set up. Most importantly it works. IMO. Ken Irwin

 

[GAmes]

Simple physics (leverage) deny that it has any "sway benefits". But if you think it dampens the little back and forth of a passing truck, then more power to you.

 

[kthaxton]

Simple physics (leverage) deny that it has any "sway benefits".

I'm not following that line of thinking......?? It appears to me (I have not used it, I have only used the Equalizer brand) that it adds friction to side-to-side movements.....similar, but not as simple, as Equalizer. This appears to be sound physics.

 

[GAmes]

Once again........sway is the uncontrollable side to side movement of a trailer. A 32 foot long, 10,000 pound trailer is a giant pendulum. Even a 10 foot long, 2000 pound cargo trailer is more than a gimmick hitch can contain or control. It might be enough to dampen the little side to side movement of the trailer when a big truck passes, but it can't stop it. If there was enough friction to control movement a trailer would slide sideways around corners, rather than turn and follow the tow vehicle.

 

[kthaxton]

It might be enough to dampen the little side to side movement of the trailer when a big truck passes, but it can't stop it.

I'm sure that is all they are intended to do....which is still beneficial.
Heck, even the ESC system in our trucks is designed to sense trailer sway and alternate braking from side to side to help control it. There must be some reality here.

 

[jgillott]

Once again........sway is the uncontrollable side to side movement of a trailer. A 32 foot long, 10,000 pound trailer is a giant pendulum. Even a 10 foot long, 2000 pound cargo trailer is more than a gimmick hitch can contain or control. It might be enough to dampen the little side to side movement of the trailer when a big truck passes, but it can't stop it. If there was enough friction to control movement a trailer would slide sideways around corners, rather than turn and follow the tow vehicle.

You just explained exactly why sway controls do work. Let me expand the thought a little.

Picture your example pendulum swinging in the horizontal plane. It will, as you said, continue to swing until being acted upon by and outside force.

So, on a trailer pendulum, what is that outside force limiting the side to side sway? First would be the contact of the trailer tires on the road. Their friction is applied at a point along the length of the pendulum. The second is the friction on the ball. That's one if the reasons why trailers with sufficient tongue weight tend to sway less than those without. That weight produces a proportional increase in friction on the pivot point.

So the instillation of a friction sway control does a couple of additional things to counteract that pendulum movement. First, it applies a resistance force (friction) acting in the opposite direction of the pendulum swing. Second, since the 4 point sway controls are mounted a distance down the trailer tongue, the length of the side of the pendulum is actively reduced. Thus limiting the potential force of the swing as compared to the original full length side.

Nobody is making the implication that the tendency for that pendulum to want to swing will be eliminated. Rather, the addition of additional friction and reducing the length of the side, reduces the ability for that force to produce an uncontrollable sway condition for the driver of the tow vehicle.

 

[GAmes]

All that I can tell you is after many, many miles of pulling the same loaded TT with a basic WD and a Duel cam hitch there was absolutely no difference in the way the trailer towed or handled. That tiny bit of friction on the ball coupled with the tiny bit of friction a gimmick hitch provides is infinitesimal compared to the forces a trailer of any size can generate. The outside force that causes the trailer to move back to center is the tow vehicle pulling it forward. If it continues to sway it is a mechanical fault with the trailer or a loading problem. Neither one will be prevented or even slowed by a "sway control" hitch.

Edit; One additional thing I overlooked in your post.

"it applies a resistance force (friction) acting in the opposite direction of the pendulum swing"

Yup, it does that, but it also applies a resistance force against the trailer recentering behind the tow vehicle. So, it works against itself, how is that a good thing?

 

[GAmes]

I'm sure that is all they are intended to do....which is still beneficial.

Show me one brochure from a hitch company that doesn't intend to lead the reader into thinking they will control sway. Ever seen one that is called a "sway damper"?

 

[jgillott]

Edit; One additional thing I overlooked in your post.

"it applies a resistance force (friction) acting in the opposite direction of the pendulum swing"

Yup, it does that, but it also applies a resistance force against the trailer recentering behind the tow vehicle. So, it works against itself, how is that a good thing?

Of course it applies the force of friction in both directions. Remember, it's function isn't to recenter the trailer. It's to help stop the pendulum swing. As you mentioned, the force of the tow vehicle pulling on the pivot point (or the trailer pulling away from the pivot point in the case of braking) will recenter the trailer. If you imagine the pendulum being in the vertical plane, that would be equivalent to the force of gravity pulling along the Y axis.

 

[GAmes]

When a truck passes you the trailer doesn't swing like a pendulum, it only turns slightly. First the front is forced to the left as the truck's bow wave contacts the rear of the trailer, then it pushes the front of the trailer back to the right. The whole episode happens in about a second. The last thing I want is some force trying to prevent the front of the trailer back to the right. It's a moot point anyway because there isn't enough friction to actually prevent the movement of a trailer in the first place.

Then there is the issue of those who only believe a travel trailer needs one. Why is that? Cargo trailers, both enclosed and flatbed, are much more prone to sway. Who uses a "sway control" hitch when pulling one of those? No one on this forum or anyone I know. Who is willing to drill holes in the frame in order to swap his magic hitch from one trailer to another? Does Cjr02 switch his $2400 hitch over to a cargo trailer? I'll bet not. If they are so effective and wonderful why isn't there different models for long heavy trailers and short light trailers as there is in WD bars? One size fits all, are you really that naive?

It isn't a safety issue or else the government would require them, and the little back & forth of a trailer isn't a big deal in any sense. The whole thing is a charade and a scam. Sign up and be a sucker if you wish, but I'll never waste my money on another "sway control device".

Is there any chance a "sway control" hitch would make pulling this trailer any easier? I'd love to hear your expert opinion.

 

[jgillott]

Expert...who me? I never expressed that I am a "towing expert". I simply replied to your mention of the basic Physics of the conversation, which I have attempted to explain to you. You have the right to ignore the science behind the application if you so choose.

In the meantime, many novice towers such as myself will rely on our judgement to purchase and use sway control devices and/or purchase vehicles that include electronic trailer sway controls in an attempt to keep ourselves and those around us safe in our travels. And I imagine that we will continue to rely on such devices until such time that we have gained enough practical experience to be able go without.

 

[GAmes]

As I've posted, I was a novice at one time also. The first TT I was assigned when I took the transporter job was the first TT I had ever towed. I didn't need a magic hitch any more then than you need one now. There isn't any safety factor to consider, a magic hitch doesn't provide an iota of safety. Need proof? How many break away devices have you seen or heard of that actuated after the hitch ball and the safety chains broke? Yet, someone must have had it happen, it is a federal requirement to be installed and operational. I've been checked for operational break aways in California and Canada.

Just to let you know, it was a trick question.

 

[GAmes]

Also, it comes as no surprise that you didn't attempt to answer the pertinent questions. I'll ask them again.

There is the issue of those who believe only a travel trailer needs one. Why is that?

Who uses a "sway control" hitch when pulling a cargo trailer?

Who is willing to drill holes in the frame in order to swap his magic hitch from one trailer to another?

If they are so effective and wonderful why isn't there different models for long heavy trailers and short light trailers as there is in WD bars?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[jgillott]

Also, it comes as no surprise that you didn't attempt to answer the pertinent questions. I'll ask them again.

There is the issue of those who believe only a travel trailer needs one. Why is that?

Who uses a "sway control" hitch when pulling a cargo trailer?

Who is willing to drill holes in the frame in order to swap his magic hitch from one trailer to another?

If they are so effective and wonderful why isn't there different models for long heavy trailers and short light trailers as there is in WD bars?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I can't answer why or why not someone uses a sway control on a cargo trailer. Likely it is because the load within a cargo trailer is not at a fixed point, allowing it to be moved forward or back to efficiently balance the load to eliminate as much sway as possible. A travel trailer isn't as flexible in loading therefore not as easy to properly balance. You youself have said that a properly set up trailer doesn't need anything else to be pulled safely.

Since you seem to be taking this so personal, I'll counter your question with why you seem to want to ignore all physics references that I have posted here. Is it possible that you made that reference earlier in this thread thinking that you can toss that word around not realizing that some well educated people read this forum and would be able to see through your argument?

 

[BigPapa]

Gary,

I greatly respect your advice and your experience you relate in each post, but give it a break on this one. I'd say you've made your point.

They're not spending your money, it's theirs. Let them spend it on whatever they want. The devices they're buying aren't dangerous and won't cause a problem. Let them go.

 

[Kirwin]

Well I have to say, the dual cam sway control made the difference in my 97 2500. As far as drilling holes, no holes are required for the Resse hitch I referenced above. You would only need a set of chain up brackets for each trailer. As far as the physics here, the resistance goes up the more the hitch is out of line with the tow vehicle. And as the trailer returns to center the resistance drops until its 0 at the center point. If the vehicle continues to travel in the same direction resistance rises again. It's as simple as that. I'm not trying to dispute anyone else's opinion or experience, but comparing a friction style sway device to the dual cam set up is like comparing a 1500 Ram to a 3500 dually.

 

[GAmes]

I haven'y ignored your physics references.

" It's a moot point anyway because there isn't enough friction to actually prevent the movement of a trailer in the first place."

"The outside force that causes the trailer to move back to center is the tow vehicle pulling it forward"


And you are correct Scott. These guys have spent the $$$, my only objective is to save someone from wasting their money in the future.

 

[mpaulson]

One major factor here is that I assume that 98% of people that have and tow RV's on a personal level have never weighed all the factors at a scale. Front truck axle, rear truck axle, tongue weight by itself and trailer axle weights. It might scare the dung out of them. Not all trailers are manufactured to be reasonable "Idiot Proof" for balance and load. I know of two in my group of camping friends. One is mine, a 34' bumper pull toy hauler which presents a design challenge for the potential of a major load variable behind the trailer axles and the other one is my buddies which is a 30' bumper pull travel trailer that doesn't have the load variable potential like mine does. His trailer has the axles way too far back and seriously over loads the tongue weight. He's 900# over on the trucks rear axle with weight distribution bars in use and tight, this is on a 2010 2500 mega cab with one quad in the box. We had a repair to do to his trailer during this past May long weekend when his A-frame buckled and bent up 12" from hitting a dip in the road as very slow speeds, 15 mph-ish. In the case of my trailer, with nothing in the garage I'm at 2,400lbs at the tongue! With two quads in the back I'm at 1,600lbs. I didn't have any handling issues, but had hitch capacity issues with the stock 1,800/18,000 rated hitch which I could tell was deflecting at least 1/4" on the back side of the receiver tube because I had a tube running behind it for my mud flaps and there was an imprint in it from the receiver tube hitting it. I bought the Curt commercial duty hitch that is rated for 2,700-27,000lbs rating and as well the distribution unit to suit it. My point being that everyone should take the time to check their weights including the tongue weight so that you know for sure what you are dealing with and don't end up with a hitch failure or trailer failure. While your on the scale with each axle, take the second to move the bars into load and out of load and you can see the weight difference it makes for each axle. The picture is of my buddies trailer which also has the water tank right at the front of the trailer which was empty when this happened!
I believe that the engineers(if you can call them that) that design RV's get there stamps from used toilet paper in my honest opinion.

 

[NIsaacs]

Here is a classic RV crash caused by uncontrolled sway. I see a WD hitch but can't tell if he had anti-sway. We have a 5-6% grade here where they always crash if the are going to. At the bottom is the turnoff to the land fill so we see a lot of local trash haulers trailers upside down.

This is also a classic case of inexperience/indifference to what the trailer was doing. I guarantee you he knew the trailer was pulling lousy before he crashed. As you get up to speed you can tell. He should have slowed down, reloaded or parked the sucker. I don't know the size of the RV but it looks like that older Red Dodge 1/2 ton pickup in the picture has a WD hitch Head in the hitch.

Nick

http://www.wmicentral.com/news/latest_news/trailer-trashed-on-sr/article_9f412d9d-a0c2-5d0a-9b49-f269774a6be0.html

Nick