Is it 5000 lbs or 7500 lbs Non WD?

[diesel_driver]

I found the information in my owners manual. It is written quite clearly, actually. I would agree that it makes no sense. As I said, I have been trying to figure out whether the purpose of the W/D hitch is for towing "quality", or if it's purpose is to protect the frame / hitch from damage. I tow a 14' enclosed trailer. It weighs about 5,000 to 5,500 lbs loaded. I have weighed the actual tongue when loaded. I have had as much as 960 lbs of tongue weight on it during one pull. This was level freeway driving for about 72 miles. All other occasions, tongue weight has been between 350 and 560 lbs. These were direct readings at the ball socket, no levers or calculations, direct readings. The measured "drop" at the ball when hooked up to the truck is 1-1/8" to 1-1/2". The trip when the tongue weighed 960 lbs, ball drop was 3". I have purchased a W/D system, but have not installed it yet. The stinger extends about 4" farther out of the receiver than a standard stinger. This would apply more torque to the hitch - that can't be good. It makes me want to just buy a new FL-60 and be done with it! I talked with John Holmes of TDR fame, thought he might have an inside track on finding the answer to all of our questions on this issue. We both agreed that the manual is written by lawyers, so if it stays somewhat vague, guess who would win if a frame was damaged or worse.



Ted

-- email address removed --

 

[JHardwick]

But how does it do this? It applies a rotational torque on the receiver hitch assy in the opposite direction of the hitch weight alone.

I think this is more of a leverage torque isn't it? Rotational torque would suggest some sort of torsion bar, which can be converted to leverage with a torque arm of some sort.



I agree with ThinAir, it shouldn't be that difficult. It's like DC is trying to cover tracks ... ... ... ... in case.



I mostly tow out of the bed with DRW, which helps with side wall flex and sway, and my horses move around in the 3 horse slant, and God knows the living quarters and bed are loaded down with "stuff", but it's stable. Same with the flat bed goose and all the goofy stuff I haul on it.



But, I do occasionally tow equipment or hay from the reciever (with a pintle no less, talk about weight movement) that thing beats and bangs at every stop and go. The trailer was set up for a dump truck no doubt because the axles (tri-axle) are set waaay back.



I've never used a WD hitch on this or my '99. My '99 hauled race cars more than horse stuff without a WD hitch, and I agree with the binding issue of not being on flat ground with a WD hitch. Never weighed any of the stuff I hauled, just used a gut feeling. I know I put several thousands of miles on my '99 hauling my 30' Expressline loaded with sprinter, 5000W generator, 4-wheeler, tires, wheels, tools, on-board air, etc etc with-out a sway issue ... ... ..... or WD bars.

 

[Kirwin]

Great info here

Rockcrawler I was not trying to imply that anything you posted is incorrect. I'm no engineer but have hauled my specific trailers quite a distance. I'd like to better understand what you said with respect to the frame fasteners. If I could figure out how to quote on here I'd do it but I ain't even that smart. So here goes. It seems to me that the stress on the receiver (and thus the frame and fasteners) would go up with a weight distrubution system as the spring bars act as wheelbarrow handles to transfer the load back through the frame to the front suspension. It seems to me that the longer old style frame mounted class 3 hitches would be better all around at minimizing the local stresses on the receiver and frame. With the new style hitch mounting, using a weight distributed receiver set up would seem to make it worse as far as localized stress on the frame at the receiver mounting location wouldn't it? Or am I not understanding something here?

Dpelletier Dave, yes I use WD bars. I would not pull without them. I was not trying to say (or imply) that you should not use a WD hitch for any trailer over 5K. I was trying to say that 1,200 lb tounge weight is only 10% of what the truck is rated to haul, of course you need the rest of the appropriate towing gear to handle that 12K part of the rating. When I put the 1700 lb on my ball prior to installing the spring bars, my 03 truck drops right at 3". The overloads aren't even touching. As to weather the hitch will stand the test of time, I will be looking at it closely as Rcokcrawler seems to be sugesting that with my tounge load and trailer weight, the factory hitch may not last too long. What do you guys think the best after market 12K hitch is?

 

[Rockcrawler]

Guys,

I don't take anyone's feedback as arguing etc. , just people sharing ideas and experiences. I've had some pretty significant experience both in miles and in sagging and actually replacing a hitch assy (The hitch was sagged from trailering then replaced after a minor accident). Replacing the hitch gave me a new respect for the issues at hand as I became intimate with how it mounts to the frame- and no, it's not as stout as the "conventional" designs which run up 18" of frame or so. I'm just trying to throw this info out so people can make informed decisions about what's right for them.



I use the expression torque- becasue it fits in the third gens design. There is a notch in the frame where the round tube crossmember fits in. The hitch brackets use a 3 bolt pattern on each side centered around the "pivot point of this tube (Imagine a renault LeCar wheel pattern). First off, the bolts vs hole size is pretty sloppy, so the hitch can rotate till all the clearances are maxed out on one side.



There is also a thin tab on tob of the hitch which kind of shoe horns into the top of the frame rail, this tab can bend. The C notch on the end of the frame rails results in an upper and lower leg going above and below the crossmember. This lower leg will also sag. The c-notch really compromises the design IMO.



With regard to the equalizers, yes the load counteracts the dead weight torque where the hitch is fastened. If you adjusted way to far, I imagine you "could" but a greater torque load on the hitch in the opposite direction and bend the assy up rather than sagging it- seems to me to be pretty unlikely though. Perhaps in an extreme dip where the ball is at the bottom and the truck nose and trailer tail are up forming a "v"- make sense??



In the end, I'm really not concerned with preloading my bars enough to push the front end way down (opposite torque on the hitch mt), but preloading them enough to make the mount see weight but little to no torque (and the torque it does see leans to the pushing the front of the truck down) I know the truck and suspension can take the weight, I just want the hitch mount to be tasked with weight rather than weight and the 2200ish ft lbs I mentioned earlier. My equalizer brand hitch is unique in that it also counts on this preload to make the sway control effective. It tows real well, just came back thru 89a from Fredonia, up near the North rim of the grand canyon- good testing grounds for the handling of your setup.



I hope this helps clear up where I'm coming from, crawl under your trucks with a light and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[Kirwin]

How much weight and how far

Rockcrawler, How much do you tow and how many miles befrore you noticed the sagging condition? Thanks Ken Irwin

 

[Rockcrawler]

In a nutshell, I tow a 8000-9000 enclosed race trailer about 25k a yr. With 1000ish lbs weight carrying hitch weight (I use race car scales to verify). Been using a WD setup since April this yr.



I sagged my hitch after about 15-20k towing. Could've been one BIG bump, don't know. Load is pretty consistent in the race trailer tools, spares and car all go in the same place. It was not bad enough that I looked into fixing it, just annoyed me, was going to, just never did.