2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission is my truck a lemon?

[jKrueger]

This is my first time writing in and I should say that I hope I picked the right forum for my topic. I guess I want to express my somewhat disappointment with my truck. I should start out by saying that I saved up for a long time to buy it: a brand new, 2001 quad cab long bed SLT+ six speed 4x4 loaded. I've always liked diesels and thought this was the best engine versus the GM 6. 5 at the time and more complex Ford 7. 3L. I had it back in the shop a couple times for the transmission (would grind going into 5th and 6th when cold). They eventually replaced the trans with a new one (under warranty). Then the clutch master and slave cylinder went out. I couldn't disengage the clutch and almost drove right through a row of new vans at a Ford dealer. That cost me $500 plus a $100 tow bill. Most recently, the lift pump went, I was on the side of the road waiting for a flatbed for an hour. Finally got home from work that night at 9:30. Now it's been in the shop a week for the injector pump. It's supposed to come in today, but I'm not sure if I'll have the truck back today or not. By the way, does the injector pump usually fail right after the lift pump does? If so, that's a horrible and expensive failure mode. I'm wondering if I should sell the truck and take the loss. I thought after having a lot of used vehicles that this truck would make it to 100k with 0 problems. Especially since this truck wasn't a new design. I haven't been hard on it, easy highway driving, and I do the maintenance by the book. This thing stickered at $37,500 and I've had to have it flat-beded to the dealer 3 times. It will be 3 years old next month and has 74k on it. I've also got that annoying steering wander too. Looks like I'll have to do the TSB 19-10-97 myself because the dealer won't and maybe buy that DSS. For those of you that have owned many new vehicles, is this normal to have all these problems? I feel like I've wasted my money. I know I can't get my money out of the truck now and am wondering if it's going to cost me even more down the road as it gets older or if I've kind-of fixed all the things that will go wrong and it'll be OK for the next few years. By the way, I'm only 28 years old and this was my first new vehicle. Dodge hasn't made a good impression so far, it makes me wonder if I would have had this much trouble with a GM or Ford. What do you think. Later guys...

 

[JDinterman]

I'm sorry to hear about your problems oh and welcome to the board this is a great site. I dont think you wasted your money and all the big three are having problems my dad has a 2003 chevy 3500 and it is in the shop more than he has it. I have a 2002 dodge ctd 4x4 I have only had one problem in two years the transmission cooler busted which was covered under warranty. I know from what I have heard on here about the fuel pump issue there was a problem with them. I will let the more experienced guys fill you in on the other issues cuz i'm not sure I hope all works out for you and I must say 99% of the guys on here will only say how much they love their trucks myself included.





Jonathan

 

[csevers]

Welcome to the TDR

First off the lift pump/injection pump is a not so hot design for the 24v engines so it is very important that one monitors the fuel pressure. Simple keeping an eye on the fuel pressure may have saved the injection pump from it's early death on your vehicle. I would get and install a fuel pressure gauge and that should help you watch pressure's so you know when the lift pump is getting weak again. The front end wonder is like the fuel pump problem some have a lot of trouble some don't but in time the front end will loosen up and the truck will start to wander. A new trac bar and/or Dss bracket should take care of most of the wander if you do a search for "trac bar" you will find alot of info there are Moog trac bars for sale that are warrantied for life. So you don't have to pay for more than one. The trans problem I can't help ya much on that I have an early production 6 spd and have had no problems even thou I have abused it some, the later ones have changes that have made for some grinding problems. The Clutch master/slave is just plain B S that shouldn't have failed <. >



Did you get a lemon... ? I would say NO The problems you have had are not "new" to the trucks. THE BEST way to keep on top of things is READ this website and magizine it is packed full of info to help you maintain things you didn't even know you needed to maintain. If you keep the truck try to make it a point to read up on the different things you have had trouble with and you will learn a lot.



With the work ethic in the usa today most vehicles are made with problems in all brands and models. It is a very big crap shoot if you got a well built vehicle or not.



Good Luck with your decision

Craig

 

[CDyksman]

JKreuger

I bought a 1996 S. O. CTD in 1998 with 50,000 miles on it. 2000 miles lkater my t-case grenaded coming down a fairly steep canyon. When i took it in I had to have the Ball joints done aloso.

In the 80,000 miles following I had the whole starter catch on fire and burn all sorts of wiring. Head light solenoid almost caught once. Alternator. Rear axle seals. Vacuum sensors gone out. I could go on and on. I bet i spent $2500 a year in repairs for 4 years before i decided to take the loss and buy a new 2004 H. O.

If you think its lemon i wouldnt hesitate to get rid of it before it gets worse.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

You may want to try a different dealer or mechanic too because you are getting raked over the coals by the one you have. The clutch master/slave cylinder assembly costs just over $200 at full retail price at the dealer and it can be changed in approximately 20 minutes. $500 is WAY too much to pay to have a clutch master/slave changed.

 

[jKrueger]

Thanks a lot for the replys guys. It does make sense that they all would have problems of some sort. I guess I'm just a little down thinking about all the money I spent for the truck! I should be positive about it too though, it has gobs of power in the stock version, a nice interior and radio, and gets good mileage in my opinion: average 19. 2 MPG w/ 3. 55:1 axle. It's also a really pretty truck all washed up and clean. It's patriot blue, buy the way. I do read the stuff on the site quite often, that's how I heard about the DSS and the fact that the wander was quite a well-known problem.



What's the best fuel gauge to get? I know that question has probably been asked a lot, but I thought I'd throw it out. Once spring comes (I'm in MI) I will install one. You'd probably want to read pressure after the filter so you know exactly what's getting to the pump. I would prefer a mechanical gauge, seems simpler and more trouble-free. Any idea if anybody's just totally eliminated the factory lift pump and installed their own electric in place of it. You know, another design from a performace shop. I looked in Grainger's yesterday and anything 12 volt and rated for diesel was way to big and heavy duty.



By the way, talked to the dealer and the darn pump isn't there yet. I was really excited to get my truck back. Sounds wierd, but I hate being without it! Have a good weekend...



James

 

[ata]

I didn`t see if you payed for the Lift Pump out of your pocket or not, but the Lift Pump and Injection Pump are covered under Warranty for 5 years or 100000 miles. So don`t let them tell you any different.

 

[Duluth Diesel]

When life deals you a lemon, ask for tequila and salt.

 

[JPLB22]

Definately what "ata" said, you are not past the time or miles for you engine warranty, make sure that LP and VP44 ( injection pump ) are not coming out of your pocket.



When I bought my truck I thought that diesels where something you just buy and forget about it for the next 300,000 miles. That's not quite the case, I have found out.



When I first stumbled on to this site there was a million things running through my mind as I read and read and read and read ( things like: oh my, oh crap, and oh no !! ). But I've learned that for a relatively small amount of money you can make these trucks extremely reliable to own. I got lucky and found this site very early in my trucks life. The first thing I did was to get a fuel pressure gauge. I got the gauge on while the original LP was in good condition, and slowly watched that LP fail. I replaced it myself at 32,000 miles or so. I also added at the same time a Wildcat Max Flow Kit, which replaces the banjo fittings that the OEM fuel system is strangled by ( in my opinion banjo's = the real weakness in the 24v pump system ). And by the way I consider my self to have much much less skill than the average wrench, but with the help of the great people on this site and the great vendors offiliated also, I've been able to learn how to do a lot of things my self. Now I look for things to do to the truck !!!



Sorry for the rant, just trying to help you feel a little better about your truck !!



P. S. I use Di-Pricol for all my gauges



Jeff

 

[Hohn]

I had the benefit of TDR before I bought my truck (my first Ram and first CTD).



I had gauges in by 12K miles. Track bar has been upraded with a DT. Fuel line is now a Max flow kit.



So far, my fuel system has given me NO trouble (aside from an air leak I am hunting down- it loses prime after sitting a while and takes longer to start). A fuel pressure gauge and better plumbing can help the stock parts out a lot.



The clutch master/slave was a fluke.



The LP/VP is a known weakness, but one that you can fight back against. While you didn't have the benefit of foreknowledge, you can now plan ahead and reduce or eliminate the likelihood of future problems.



There are lots of things the factory could have done better. I have a hard time explaining to my wife why my $31K truck "needs" all these upgrades.



Unfortunately, the T-Rex suspension still isn't on the option sheet



Justin

 

[Big-D]

JKrueger,



Along with the others that have previously written, I too am sorry to hear of your disappointing experiences. I personally know how frustrating breakdowns can be and because of the problems I've had I can only say, this is my first and last Dodge pick-up truck, ever. Although we pay (what I consider) a lot of money for these trucks I thought purchasing a Cummins engine would take me away from necessary weekend fixes needed on older trucks of less monetary value. How wrong I have been.



I don't wish to add to your disappointment in your purchase for I thought I was doing the right thing by placing my money on the table in 1999 also. What I have learned from this site and my own truck failures have convienced me to look elsewhere for my next purchase. Dodge in particular along with our American auto manufacturer's need to look closer at why people are not buying their product. Just my opinion ofcourse.

Dave

 

[zstroken]

dodge, ford, toyota,nissan, gm

they all have their problems, I have an aquaintance that has an 02 toyota tundra, and is a piece of crap, 4. 7L engine has no torque, you touch the brakes and it about sends you through the windshield. They all have their problems.

 

[DJW]

Of vehicle experience, one should only pay attention to their own, we are all Individuals, so unfortunatly, prone to Opinion. From experience, if Toyota ever put a Diesel in a truck I'd buy it, I enquired of same before buying the Cummins, so for size of engine I had to take what it was shroud in. American manufacturers build for their bottom line, Oriential for Yours. Scrum Down

 

[Big-D]

Agree

DJW,



I have to agree with your outlook on the foreign auto market. In 1988 I bought a used '87 Honda with eleven thousand miles on it. Drove that car for 248K miles and only replaced the in tank fuel pump other than normal wear and tear items like brakes and tires. In 1999 I sold my Datsun and purchased another Honda for at the time I felt they surpassed our US market in workmanship. Lee Iaccoca turned Chrysler around with his for sight on what the foreign market was doing to our industry. Matter a fact, I went with Dodge in 1999 for I felt Mr. Iaacoca laid the proper ground work to compete with the import market. I coupled that with wanting to buy American and support my brothers and sisters of America.



We now own a Toyota moving away from the Honda's (had two at the same time) for reasons of mileage and comfort. For me, I'd like to see Toyota move into a light duty truck fleet with a more weight usable class like the other 3500 and 4500 series trucks. I would buy one if they did. Wouldn't matter if it was gas or diesel for my only request, when putting my hard earned dollars on the table is RELIABILITY. I haven't had that with my 3500 Ram.

Dave

 

[zstroken]

well!!

Not to be sarcastic( too late!!) I guess i would buy my friends honda 1988 honda, prelude, which has more rust on it than I have seen on any car, on the 5 clutch. Like I said they all make bad ones. I had 3 nissans and finally the last one was not a rust bucket. I won't dispute that there are some super snazzy imports out there, but I have just had the best luck with the american made ones. A neigbor has a 1987 ram with 346,000 miles on the orignal drivetrain. It smokes a little but other than that starts everytime and is very reliable.

 

[DPelletier]

J Krueger,

I will echo the above condolences on your truck's behaviour and will offer the following thoughts;



- There were some problems with the early NV5600's. Your new replacement transmission should last you a long time as it is the strongest transmission available in a pickup truck, period. Brand X, Y or Z.

- As you are no doubt aware, your engine is also the strongest and best available diesel in any brand. There is one weak link on the 2nd gen 24V engines and that is the fuel delivery system. Personally I think the VP44 is an OK unit, but the lift pump is a flawed design and the VP44 doesn't take well to being starved of fuel. Hopefully your injection pump and lift pump were covered under warranty and I would agree that the best thing to do is install a FP gauge and keep and eye on it. At the first hint of less than 8 PSI, ditch the lift pump and install a new one in order to protect the VP44.

- I've had many trucks, including a Ford F250 7. 3PSD which cost me $10,000. 00 in 30 months and a 6. 5 TD chevy that I still have that I've spent approximately $8,500. 00 on in the last 14 months to keep the damn engine running. Truck has 125,000 mi. DO NOT make the mistake of thinking the grass is greener in F or C land because it isn't!

- I am not going to debate the quality control issues of the big 3 vs. the imports. Some of it is justified and some of it isn't. The domestic automakers are getting much better, though. What I will say is that I don't believe Toyota or Nissan or ? is ever going to make a one ton, dually, diesel, six speed truck. And if they ever did, it'd cost about the same as two dodge cummins'. There is more steel in my NV-5600 than in an entire T-100.



If I were you, I'd get the truck fixed, install a FP gauge and motor off into the sunset. Sounds like a beautiful truck.



Dave





Dave

 

[MNordstrom]

I have been lucky I guess, today was the first time I have had to post a problem with my 2500 dodge CTD. It is a 2000 4x4 automatic transmission. I by honoda cars for my wife and Cummings/dodge for myself. My last dodge was a 1992 CTD sold it to my dad at 122k miles. The only problem with it was where I crushed the BED by dropping my fifth wheel on it :-(



I would say keep the truck , I am not a mechanic, and reliability is the most important thing too me... . If you have put that much money in the truck already... then you are probibly just about done working out the bugs.



PS. Had a 1982 Chevy, had to put the thing on blocks, refuse to make my payments and sue GM... it was such a peice of Junk. So I can tell ya Ford and Chevy are no better.

 

[Cobra]

lemon ?

Oh yeah, if it is a Dodge it is a lemon.



Sorry to hear about your problems. I don't think Dodge builds a very good truck but then as others have said, Ford and Chevy have their problems also. Soooo, what you have to look at is the dealer. My truck has had some problems but all were taken care of by the dealer. Therefor I am somewhat happy with my truck. Its not the greatest but the other two makes would be as bad and maybe the dealer would be worse.



Happy trails to you

 

[Hohn]

NO offense meant, but it's hardly logical to say that because a chevy was junk in 1982 that they are junk now.



once upon a time, Toyota, Honda, etc were known as "Jap Crap". Now they set the quality standard.



Blanket statements about one brand being better than another are ignorant. Even within brands, some models are great, others are trash. Within models, some trim lines are less reliable than others.



Also, within production runs, reliability varies. Does anyone believe that the 24V engines made in 1998 were as reliable as the 2002 models? Clearly not.



Just like the 2003 will probably end up being the least reliable 3rd gen (though still pretty good). It's called growing pains. No one can foresee it all, so they have to refine things as they are brought to light.



sometimes growing pains are major (ala Ford 6. 0), other times they are minor. But they are ALWAYS there with any new model. That's why I bought proven second gen (last off the line) instead of a new 3rd gen. I forfeited some of the wonderful new technology, but I have a truck that has the bugs worked out and should serve me well in the long term.



Thus far, the only problem was the backup light switch (on the transmission) which was replaced under warrantee.



Justin

 

[CrewCabDiesel]

Gee everyone forgot the worst problem with a Cummins,

The Bomb-in Bug !

Once you get started it just runs away with your checkbook . I don't even want to start figuring how much I put into my truck since I started with bombing upgrades.



But seriously, if you have to use a mechanic to repair your rig, find one that knows his stuff and knows Cummins, don't be a Ginnie pig for parts swapping trouble shooting method mechanic. I have yet to find a dealer in west Michigan that even has a clue about any of the systems on a Cummins Powered Dodge(one thought it was a V8 and had glow plugs). Use the dealer for you warranty items but ask around for referrals for the other stuff.

As for your problems with your truck, be thankful that the fuel system failed now under warranty and get a fuel pressure gauge installed as soon as you can. I am currently on my 3rd new lift pump at 132000 miles(4th new on the shelf) and that one is now failing. My next upgrade is a FASS fuel system to get rid of the lift pump all together(and feed my bombs better). I also have a DSS waiting on the shelf to be installed when the weather breaks along with a new power steering gear box. If you are over by Muskegon, I will try to give you a hand with sources for parts locally.

Kyle