Is our Truck Spying on us????

[hammersley]

Hope this hasn't been posted... . http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1227/p13s01-wmgn.html

 

[tURBOdIEZEl]

interesting find. kinda makes u wonder. sounds something similar to the ole' "black box" in airplanes.

 

[WMonroe]

I don't like that. Does anyone know if they are putting them in new Dodge Rams?

Will

 

[bpenrod]

I know of several loyal GM people who refused to get OnStar becuase they felt GM was watching thier every move!

 

[Stalker04]

I've heard that SRT is possibly putting black boxes in the SRT-4 Neons due to excessive transmission warranties. Owners are putting Nitrous their cars, blowing up transmissions, removing nitrous, and taking to dealers for warranty work... . But I haven't heard anything about the Rams.

 

[barbwire]

Kinda feels like buying your own demise, Doesn't it?

 

[KYLE4]

Just another way for big brother to watch you

 

[john3976]

So far only General Motors has allowed Law Enforcement to have full access to their Air Bag Control Modules, that is the silver box they are talking about in the article, Ford has limited Law Enforcement to only a hand full of its vehicles to be down loaded.



California has already made a law about needing a subpoena for Law Enforcement to get a hold of the data from these boxes.



Florida has no such laws and they do use the information when ever they have it available.



The smart thing to do is to obey the law.

 

[klenger]

The smart thing to do is to obey the law.

This issue is kind of a two-edged sword. If you were driving recklessly and caused an accident, the data may "cook your goose", but if the data proved you were not driving recklessly, it just might "save your bacon".

 

[Dieselram]

I know they are in the camero's(99-02) and all the new vette's. My friend was killed in a camero about 2 months ago and they pulled that box and determined that he was going 108 when the airbags deployed...

 

[R-N-R]

I heard a story about a guy that rented a car with GPS service. When he turned it in he paid a hefty premium because it tracked him driving 80mph. The rental company's warning was in the contract's fine print.

 

[lmills]

yeh, I had a guy I worked with about 2 years ago that found out the hard way. He hit a deer and totalled his firebird while racing. The insurance company saw he was gong in excess of 100 mph when it happened and refsed his claim. Last I heard he was stuck paying the payment, with no car. Thats a big price to pay

 

[GBechtold]

This is just another way the goverment is taking our liberties from us a little at a time :{

 

[DKarvwnaris]

This is just another way the goverment is taking our liberties from us a little at a time :{

For most folks, this is a welcome change. I for one, am sick and tired of drunk drivers and other wreckless drivers taking stupid chances that result in an innocent victim being killed or mamed. Diriving at 100 mph and hitting someone else is criminal negligence at the least. My ins. rates are going up because of things like this. Drive as you want, but don't expect to get away with just because no one caught you, especially if the car you hit was void of life afterwards to prove you were reckless.

Requiring a court order to access the info seems somewhat excessive for an injury related accident, find out who is at fault and nail them to a tree. Now if its a non injury accident and the parties are fighting over who was to blame, it would take the incompetence of some local yocal cop deciding who is at fault by looking at the aftermath. I don't drive like wrecklessly so I don't care what they record. There are many things I hate about being watched, but this is far from one of them. Might actually be good if they build in a location recorder as well so they can target gang bangers and criminals lying about their whereabouts.

OnStar is a whole different story, it was designed to protect GM, no one else. They can't build a decent car, so they have to be able to shut it down when they sense problems with it on the road. They can shut down the vehicle with it as well as notify you. Nice huh?

 

[TRLRTRSH]

Spying Trucks

After reading this post, I really started thinking about my 2003 Dodge truck and what might happen as a result of an accident. After spending an hour on the web I realize this is an issue which might in the near future have serious legal consequences for us all.

Information gathered through Event Data Recorders (EDR) IMHO belongs to the owner of the vehicle. In Washington State if you make payments to the bank for your vehicle the BANK is the Legal Owner, and you are the Registered Owner, SO can the BANK give permission to download information which may cause YOU to go to Jail????

Maybe some folks deserve to spend time locked up for their stupid driving, BUT the larger issue in my opinion is the erosion of our CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

I for one will be contacting my state and federal representatives concerning this issue.

From just a cursory look at my truck (2003) it looks like the air bag is capable to giving information which may be used against ME in a legal situation. If anyone knows differently please educate me.



Washington Post, Tuesday, July 27, 2004

Cindy Skizjcki

“Debate in the states already is hot, particularly over who owns the information. California passed a law requiring disclosure that the device is in the vehicle and requiring the vehicle owner to give permission to download any of the data.

Nine other states, including Maryland and Virginia, are discussing legislation. ”



"This is another example of where technology has outstripped the law and certain assumptions of how the world works," says Jay Stanley, director of communications for the Technology and Liberty Project at the American Civil Liberties Union in New York.











Article [V. ] U. S. Constitution



No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or

otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment

of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval

forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of

War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the

same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor

shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against

himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without

due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for

public use, without just compensation.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I've heard that SRT is possibly putting black boxes in the SRT-4 Neons due to excessive transmission warranties. Owners are putting Nitrous their cars, blowing up transmissions, removing nitrous, and taking to dealers for warranty work... . "



Sounds a WHOLE LOT like some on THIS board, who will install stuff like add-on power boxes, EZ, Comp, etc. , and then when they blow up a transmission, injection pump, or something similar, will quickly remove the add-ons to try to save their warranty...



And yeah, *I* pretty much am disgusted at guys who want to PLAY, but refuse to take responsibility for their actions, and then expect that manufacturer to step up and bail them out of their "re-engineering" mistake!



Dishonesty like that ends up costing us ALL increased costs for vehicles and service, and pretty much FORCES dealerships to become our adversaries as they must assume the role of detectives to try to see if an owner has crossed the line, and is attempting warranty fraud...



NO, I don't accept trying to fall back on the "well, my dealer is CROOK, and *I* am entitled to cheat and sell out my integrity and honesty to get whatever I can from him - he DESERVES to be cheated... "



Guys like that lack the maturity and honesty to place themselves in the manufacturers position, then ask if THEY would willing pay for a new transmission or injection pump purely because a customer had abused the terms of his warranty!



Seems the will to stand up like responsible ADULTS, and accept full liability for mods we KNOW full well will void our warranty, are for many a thing of the past.



NO. *I* don't like the "black box approach either - but customer dishonesty pretty much drives the manufacturers to it - for a large part, it's our own fault!



Flame away!

 

[moolie]

i called dodge on this about 2 months ago. I yelled and yelled the told me it was a safety feature. I responded with "why don't u advertise it like the other safety features. " I mean with the commecercials i always hear something standard anti lock breaks and standard drivers side air bag and so on. Why is this safety device hidden and not even talked about. I also found that a guy cannot go around it not even the highest ranking techs at the dealership can fully disable the device. They said only a specialized daimler chrysler engineer could access the information. I personally could care less if they ONLY USED IT FOR WARRANTY, and accidents but you know that's not gonna be it. I wonder what else they got microphones in there, automatic real time uplink so you can be tracked or intercepted or even shut down at your disliking. That's what wrong in this day and age. Everyone is nosey, worried about what him or me or the other guy is doing. meanwhile they struggle with everyday situations in their own life. If they just worried about their house, family, job, they would easily find that they wouldn't have the time or effort to worry about everyone else. But what fun would that be.

 

[DDeputy]

In the Jan 05 issue of Popular Mechanics, "Who's spying on you" was the article and some of us might be a little nervous after reading it!! Cars,GPS devices ie. cellphones,computers, atms, surveillance, creditcards and even TiVo!!! Just to name a few..... sleep well!

 

[RedRam401]

I own a small trucking company and the DOT has been fighting to make us install black boxes using the excuse of eliminating log books, safety, terrorist threats etc. , etc. , etc... ...

I can tell you that in the instance of computer controlled truck engines, data is stored and can be downloaded and mapped to recover saved operating paramaters. Two years ago the company I was managing had a near fatal accident when a loaded trash truck in Maryland ran a red light and broadsided our tractor which was making a left turn. Our Ins. Co. had Mack go out and download the engine computer of the trash truck and was able to prove that the brakes were never applied before impact. They had details of throttle position, speed, RPM for a few minutes before the accident.

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[DKarvwnaris]

I couldn't agree with you more Gary. I have learned from my own experience how much car owners will lie, cheat, or use any means to make a dealer or manufacturer repair a vehicle under warranty. Most of the time, they have altered the drivetrain way beyond reasonable limits. Dodge automatic transmissions are real sore spot for me with the Cummins engine, don't expect it to hold together when it was designed for a specific HP application.



For commercial trucks, The trip computers have been able to record data since early 90's that I personally know of from friends who have had it pulled on them accidents etc. Those that were not at fault were saved from the lying motorists that falsified their accident report statements. The guys I know that were at fault were up against a wall with their employers, usually fired regardless of the accident reports results as the trucking company would not release the info unless it was in support of them or the driver or subpoenaed to do so. I can't name off the company as it would probably come back to haunt me as I am still affiliated with them in some ways. I support the black boxes 100%. They are fault proof and have elminated alot of the drivers from falsifying log books by either their own choice, or by a dispatcher urging them to continue with a load beyond the drivers allowed hours.



I would rather see a privacy act require a court order to only allow this information to be used for Law enforcement, warranty dispute, or company/ private owner's personal interests. Knowing that if my car is stolen, it will be tracked to its exact last point of GPS updated signal is a plus as well. This will raise the stakes for theft, chop shops, and insurance fraud claims.

Seems like technology is at least this once, on my side. Sorry if any here feel differently, I don't believe in black Helicopter's or satellites wathcing me mow my lawn just to know if I am behavin'. Too many criminals to worry about these days as it is.