Is our Truck Spying on us????

[Gary - K7GLD]

"This can be quite important to your pocketbook should your car be involved in unlawful activity. Suppose you send your son down the street to buy eggs and he drag races on the way home but doesn't get caught, the insurance man might see that data some day down the road and decide to jack YOUR insurance rates on the spot. The dealer might decide to void your warranty.



A very poor example - my insurance company not only lists my specific vehicles covered, but ALSO all within my household covered who might be driving those vehicles at any point in time - THAT is how insurance rates are determined!



Other than theft, or unauthorized use of such an insured vehicle, you're dern RIGHT that improper/illegal use of that vehicle WILL and SHOULD be reflected in the insurance rates, otherwise out of control repair/replacement costs for those customers WILL be applied the rest of that company's customer base and we'll ALL be paying nore for our insurance!



The same applies to warranty issues, the vehicle manufacturer covers the VEHICLE, not individual drivers - and just because it's your drag-racing teenage SON who blows an engine or transmission while HE is driving it instead of you, in NO WAY obligates the vehicle manufacturer to give you a free replacement - would YOU, if you were the maker?

 

[Mike Ellis]

DKarvwnaris,

It's still America, do you think anywhere else you'd be able to write the conspiracy theory you have here? Maybe in France towards the US I guess.

What the heck are you talking about, a "conspiracy theory"? Are you trying to tie the comments in my post to the previous blurbs about "black helicopters" and such?



As far as it still being America, if our Founding Fathers had been as accepting of governmental oversight as these posts indicate that some of you guys are, we would still be a colony of Britain. If you enjoy being monitored, eavesdropped, videotaped, wiretapped, photographed, and recorded, more power to you. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be under constant surveillance, heck it might make life a bit safer, a bit cheaper, even a bit less stressful. Just try to ignore the few of us crackpots out here who don't feel guilty enough or criminally inclined enough or afraid enough to think that we need to watch everybody all the time.



Just remember, as good subjects it is your duty to comply with every whim of the state. Rember: do not wear facial hair, dark glasses, or masks that could interfere with automatic facial recognition systems. Remember: leave your window curtains open so that police can more easily tell if you have stopped beating your wife. That's a good subject... now heel! GOOD doggie! :-laf



And down the road, if you get caught up in one of those abuses of surveillance and monitoring data that never ever never happen just be thankful that you voted for those controls on the populace. What's that? You DIDN'T vote for them? Awwww, that's OK, we know what's best for you... . and your wife..... and your kids... . and your truck... :-laf :-laf

 

[Mike Ellis]

A Few Bits of Info for Lovers of Surveillance

Don't worry, it's probably just a few isolated crackpots... . :-laf :-laf



For the 85+% of you TDR folks who habitually speed:

Bosses Keep Sharp Eye on Mobile Workers



"Ciro Viento commands a platoon of 110 garbage trucks, so when a caller complained after seeing one of the blue and white trash tanks speeding down Route 22, Viento didn't know which driver to blame. Until he checked his computer. With a few taps on the keyboard, Viento zeroed in on the driver of one particular front-loader -- which, the screen showed, had been on that very road at 7:22 a. m. , doing 51 miles per hour in a zone restricted to 35. Gotcha. More employers are adopting technology like the system used by Viento's company. As they do, many workers who have long enjoyed the freedom of the road are rankling over the boss' newfound power to watch their every move -- via satellite. "

Full story - Casper Star Tribune

For those of you who don't mind having people monitor your wives and daughters on camera:

Atlantic City Casino Fined for Cameras



"Women, beware: Those "eye in the sky" surveillance cameras used by casinos don't just look for card cheats and crooked dealers. Sometimes, they look for low-cut blouses. New Jersey casino regulators fined Caesars Atlantic City Hotel Casino $80,000 Wednesday for using surveillance cameras to spy on female employees and customers sitting at casino tables or riding escalators. "

Full story - Newsday

For those who like to send e-mail or post to TDR from work:

Boss may watch your emails without telling



"Many companies regularly monitor the email communications of their employees - and a number of them are doing it in real-time. This is part of the findings in the survey "Monitoring and Personal Data Privacy in the Workplace" done by Hong Kong Institute of Human Resource Management (HKIHRM) in co-operation with the Office of Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data (PCO)... According to the survey, it is found that almost 56 per cent of the responding companies have admitted they monitor the email communications of their staff. Among them, 40 per cent do it without a specific cause. "

Full story - China Daily

For those who don't mind having somebody monitor their typing:

Keystroke device ruled not wiretapping



"A man accused of planting a keystroke recording device on a workplace computer wasn't violating federal wiretapping law, a judge has ruled. Larry Lee Ropp, 46, was indicted in March on charges he installed such a device to obtain e-mails, passwords and other information from a computer used by the secretary to the vice president of an Anaheim, Calif. -based insurance company... U. S. District Court Judge Gary Feess dismissed the case last month, saying the wiretap law does not extend to the interception of electronic signals from a keyboard to a computer's central processing unit. Ropp did not intercept the messages as they traveled over the Internet and thus his actions, while a violation of privacy rights, did not amount to wiretapping, Feess wrote. "

Full story - MSNBC

For those who think only the gubmint has the resources to track people:

Electronic tracking is finding new uses



"... Phillips works for Satellite Security Systems, or S3, one of a growing number of private companies providing satellite tracking services to anyone willing to pay. Once a fabulously expensive tool for the military, the technology is becoming part of everyday life, spawning dozens of new uses. S3's clients include school districts such as Washington, D. C. , and Fairfax County, Va. , state and federal government agencies, police departments and companies. But there are plenty of individual customers, too -- people interested in keeping tabs on new teenage drivers, Alzheimer's patients, philandering spouses. The position of vehicles or people is determined by gear they carry that includes global positioning system, or GPS, technology, which uses a network of satellites orbiting the Earth to pinpoint the location of things on the ground. The information is then beamed to S3's computers. "

Full story - Mercury News

For those who love their freedom-fostering cell phones:

Go Ahead, Just Try to Disappear



"As her daughter enjoyed a weekend road trip, Donna Butler sat back home 120 miles away at her personal computer and watched a blue dot tick slowly across the screen. But not slowly enough. "They were going 85 on the interstate where the speed limit is 70," said Butler, who interrupted 17-year-old Danielle's getaway to let her know, " 'I will personally come up there and drive you home. ' " It would have been easy to find her. Whenever Danielle is away from her central Florida home, her mobile phone uses a global positioning system to transmit her precise location, which her mother can track online. "

Full story - latimes (reg. req. )

For those who think there isn't all that much surveillance:

Our every move is tracked and recorded



"David Fraser walks out his front door on a midwinter morning bound for work. His movements and activities are under surveillance, tracked by networks of people and distant computers in his own city and around the planet. Mr. Fraser isn't a wanted man, nor is he a foreign spy. He's an ordinary Canadian inhabiting a world so wired by ubiquitous technology that almost everything he does is monitored and measured in breathtaking detail. Mr. Fraser, a Halifax privacy lawyer, isn't concerned about the surveillance itself. What worries him is that most Canadians simply don't know their lives are so closely watched by the silent eyes of business and government. "

Full story - Ottawa Citizen

For those who like to buy stamps but are afraid they might be crooks:

EPIC FOIA Request Shows Postal Machines Take, Store Photos



"Documents (pdf 1. 9 MB) obtained by EPIC under the Freedom of Information Act show that new Postal Service self-service postage machines take portrait-style photographs of customers and retain them for 30 days on a Windows XP platform. One document reads, "Camera required by FAA. Privacy Office is requiring a notice for customers, advising that photograph may be taken during the transaction. ""

Full story - EPIC (.pdf)

For those who think nobody reputable worries about surveillance:

Discovery Times Channel Explores Private and Government Surveillance in America in SOMEONE'S WATCHING (Press Release)



"Over the past 10 years, a proliferation of new technologies has transformed the way we communicate and gather information. But these new technologies exact a price for the convenience they offer: They are actively deployed in day-to-day life and inherently open up new ways to monitor people without their knowledge. In the world premiere documentary SOMEONE'S WATCHING (Saturday, December 18, 10 PM (ET/PT)), Discovery Times Channel explores how the average American's every move is monitored through technology, from cameras to credit cards to the World Wide Web. Guided by Pulitzer Prize-winning New York Times contributor Lowell Bergman, SOMEONE'S WATCHING takes an in-depth look at how government and private surveillance affects the lives of Americans today. "

Full story - PR Newswire

For those who think a story is more credible coming from a network source:

Justified Paranoia: Someone Is Watching



"There was a time when if you got the strange feeling someone was watching you, you could usually write it off to paranoia. Those days are long gone. Maybe you've gotten used to the idea that your every move will be recorded as you try to decide which snacks you want to buy in a convenience store or while you pump your gas, but in a growing number of towns and cities, the scrutiny you are under is becoming more intense. Civil liberties groups estimate there are as many as 3 million surveillance cameras currently in operation in the United States, making it seem that the "surveillance society" civil libertarians warn about is already here. Was George Orwell just 20 years off?"

Full story - ABC

Hmmm, not much evidence at all of any great amount of surveillifying going on out there, must be a big ol' conspiracy theory or something



And of course anybody who objects to be monitored or surveilled 24/7 must be downright un-American :-laf :-laf

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Don't worry, it's probably just a few isolated crackpots... . :-laf :-laf



For those of you who don't mind having people monitor your wives and daughters on camera:

You'll have abuse of any system, no matter who runs it, they are paying for it too through prosecution.







For those who like to send e-mail or post to TDR from work:

If I catch any of my guys emailing personal notes on my equipment and on my payroll time. I will fire them, period. I am paying them to represent my interests, participating in forum's on my office equipment is not in their employment description.







For those who don't mind having somebody monitor their typing:

Due to the # of sexual harrassment and inappropriate behaviors being targeted currently in the workplace of America, I would expet keystroke monitoring, you're subject to it here. . I can not my genitals or curse on this site wihtout being automatically edited. Not that I do use ill language here, but it shows it is common for the better of the viewers who don't want to read it.





For those who love their freedom-fostering cell phones:I don't care if someone knows where I am at, I would prefer that I am locatable in an accident. Knowing if my kids are in an area I disapprove of is a big plus, helps make parenting easier and still give the kids freedom (so they think)





For those who think a story is more credible coming from a network source:Anyone stupid enough to take any media source as anything but tabloid news these days is asking for their own demise as an intellectual self thinking person. Sheep and Slaves watch CNN.





Hmmm, not much evidence at all of any great amount of surveillifying going on out there, must be a big ol' conspiracy theory or something



Surveillance has been around since the beginning of time, its just more publicly talked about now. WWII perfected it and made it the standard for Gubment everywhere.



And of course anybody who objects to be monitored or surveilled 24/7 must be downright un-American :-laf :-laf

There is a huge difference from a vehicle recording device to being on the FBI surveillance system. Americans are free to run an scream if they feel suppressed, I would not consider vehicle black boxes reason to run and scream though, I welcome the vehicle recorders.

 

[EEdmondson]

I don't have anything to hide, but our forefathers fought hard for our rights and freedoms and it seems that they are being taken away one by one. We shouldn't just stand back and watch it happen. I pretty much agree with Mike Ellis that we have to be careful about what we give up. On the other hand, those new "tools" make it a lot easier to catch crooks.



Mike, I can't believe you're from Texas.

 

[barbwire]

Yeah , When you are under survielence while making love to your wife... ... ... ..... Oh, thats right you have nothing to hide!!!!!!!!!

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Yeah , When you are under survielence while making love to your wife... ... ... ..... Oh, thats right you have nothing to hide!!!!!!!!!

If they want to chance seeing my hairy skinny backside, so be it, I doubt they'll do it twice. I can see this is not worth participating in anymore. Reasonable discussion on this has dissapeared. Enjoy the rest of the thread.

 

[barbwire]

Sorry, didn't mean to spoil yer fun!

 

[Mike Ellis]

Yep, I am actually from Texas. I even passed the "Get a Rope!" 101 course in high school when learning how to deal with crime



Guess I am out of line with most of the TDR on this issue, I am just one of those old country boys that doesn't like being monitored, surveilled, tracked, and recorded 24/7 like I was some kind of rapist with a GPS tracker on my unit. I always thought privacy was a good thing.



Maybe that's why I always liked that old Hank Williams song:

Why don't ya mind your own bidness?

Why don't ya mind your own bidness!

'Cause if ya mind your own bidness, you won't be minding mine... ...



Oo.

 

[TRLRTRSH]

Mike, I don't think you are out of line with most of the TDR folks on TDR. There will always be people who feel more safe, more secure, and happy with more government survailance. Just think only 3. 5 million more people voted for Bush as for Kerry.



Bill

 

[JHerrlich]

It's amazing how people prefer the life of a sheep. Let's all follow along, it's easier that way...



If you have nothing to hide, send all your mail on postcards. No more envelopes, you have to yell all of your conversations so others can hear. No more complaining about your boss, you're not being productive in the workplace.



You never realize your liberties are being taken until they're gone. Then it's too late.



Wake up people...

 

[DMoon]

I find this thread interesting but..... why would the rental company care about you speeding. They are not the enforcing agency and it won't absolve them of any liability in states that would be able to prosecute them anyways. Ultimately it's the drivers responsibility. If the car gets dinged he/she pays. Doesn't make sense and if I were a potential renter and they threw this at me I would refuse to pay and would likely take them to task in a law suite.

 

[DMoon]

Yeah, all well and good. Technology is great. No doubt it has benefited all of us but when an individual is prosecuted on faulty data, and it will happen, then we'll see where this goes. Let's hope it's not one of us, eh!

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

I don't think anyone here would have a problem with a 5-10 sec cache of data in case of accident. The problem is that if information exists it can be used against you. If it's going to be used against you it must be proven to be accurate.



I know there are speed laws that are for safety but there is no law saying I can't drive as fast as I want off public roadways or even on them ... I think wyoming has a few roads w/o speedlimits.



there is too much possibility for the information to be abused.



For the arguements about TDR members avoiding warranty problems... I've had customers and my own expersince with dealers doing anything they can to get out of honest warranty work. Since when does nay engine mod affect the worthless dayum lift pump? walk into a dealership with twins and a bad lift pump and see what happens.



I don't have a problem with any recording device that I have full access to without permission or consent from anyone but me.

 

[David Oxland]

What bothered me about the "MY right" sort of thing is that in a town in the interior of British Columbia, rapidly developing, with lots of tourist interest as well, there was a problem with drug dealing hoodlums and more. . I think town council did install a camera to watch and identify because some of the actions were so bold and ordinary grandma's and children were afraid to go there.



The federal Government Ombudsman, I believe, under our constitution stepped in and said the cameras had to come down. It was the right of the citizen not to be observed or monitored while they walked, enjoyed the area with their children and fellow citizens, ... ... ... ... ..... dealt drugs, assaulted or mugged others, carried out gang activities etc.



The last negative items are, of course, added by me, but you take my meaning.



It seems to me that we need a balance between "our rights" to go about completely unfettered and our responsiblities to help support our community.



One of the troubles is that Ordinary Joe blow or Grandma are reluctant when confronted to take a stand and call for help and pursue the matter to justice. for two reasons I think. Just plain fear and the justice system being so unwieldy.



When people speak of being convicted or harassed because of mistakes in computers or camera equipment, granted there is a risk.

But also is is a deeper mistake to fail to act and make reasonable use of tools to make our community safe for the people there when we know that a deep problem exists. .



There are a couple of TDR guys for Kelowna I see; they might have an opinion

 

[klenger]

I personally have no problem with an airbag computer remembering my speed for the last 10 seconds before they are deployed. Consider this: if an accident happens, the information is usefull, and may absolve me of guilt since I tend to drive pretty conservatevely anyway. If I'm not in an accident, the computer will have 10 seconds of my speed as I pulled into the driveway or parking spot. I assume it only stops recording if the air bags actually deploy. I do strongly feel that I have a right to know if the data is being used in an investigation.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

To a slim degree, concerns about "invasion of privacy" may be valid - but take away the paranoia of those who are fearful simply because THEY knowingly abuse speed limits and other similar traffic laws - as well as the operation of their vehicles, and there is actually precious LITTLE cause for alarm at a device that simply records the status of various vehicle parameters for the last moments prior to a serious accident... Similar devices have been used in various aircraft - the benefits have GREATLY outweighed personal freedom, privacy, or any related issues - if they WERE actually issues to begin with.



Why must we make that great leap of fear-filled assumption that similar devices in our vehicles are evil, and those who PUT them there, MUST be any different?

 

[Mike Ellis]

DMoon,



From reports at work, the rental car companies justify the extra charge because speeding "increases wear and tear" on the car.

 

[R-N-R]

I wonder... . If the justice system(s) delt with criminals more "effectively", would we need the ability to track everybody? The funny thing is that many of the people who will develop or otherwise deploy these systems with honerable intentions of providing services and/or "protect" will eventually also use them for their own advantage, right wrong, or otherwise. I hate the thought of being tracked, but then I also feel if I am in the right I will be justified and if I am wrong then I deserve what I get. I suppose that means that I am still on the fence with this.



Like most other invasive systems, a relatively small percentage will get screwed by this technology, but a large percentage will be aided in positive situations.

 

[southpaw]

I just finished reading this entire thread and see good points to both sides of the issue. I also just now pulled a worn and tattered book from the shelf in front of me and whish deeply that i could read the entire text to everyone. United States Constitution. and Bill of Rights. I recieved it in 1969 because I called a state senator and asked him a pointed question. The book was a gift just for being involved. From the text in this book I have come to the conclusion that our education system is to blame for the mess our government is in. I say this because when I read the words written there and observe what the government has come to it is because our legislators cannot read plain old American. But then I ask myself who voted for these idiots?Black boxes are a hot and good topic but if we observe some of the more obvious aritcles for discussion then we can answer why we are in such a screwed up situation. Question? are the articles of the Bill of Rights a part of or a seperate document from the Constiution? If each state can make laws concerning an element of the Bill of Rights ie the 2nd amendment' why then can't each state make laws regarding the 1st or 7th or any other article. If commiefornia and jokelyork can pass laws abriging the 2nd why cant they also write a law that says people don't have a right to be secure in their personal homes or as in the first Amendment Mass. says well we are going to declair Islam as the state religion. Finegold-McCain destroyed the first amendment B Boxer, Finestine, Chukkie Schummer, T. Kennedy and yes scarrey Kerry have worked overtime to destroy the 2nd . But my point is this if the first Amendment is ruled on and applied consistantly nationwide why not all? why is one article held more sacred than any other they are from the same document . The way I read this the Constitution is a fence put around the elected it limits them in what they can do and I don't believe that the Bill of rights is something that they can mess with thats our protection against elected from abuses toward us the non elected, thats why" shall not be infringed" is written in the 2nd. Its to keep the elected bumbs which most are[liewers ] lawyers sweating they are afraid they will disenfranchise some citizen and that citizen might remove the elected from the gene pool. We are responsible we elect they are getting more powerful they are becoming more seperated from the governed . we gotta write call send e-mail and become a pain in their side then vote them out good ridance Dashell. Just hooked up this new computen machine now i needs to fix my sig . southpaw