Is "red" diesel harmful?

[Murle]

Steve H, I just want to thank you for trying and doing a fine job in putting some of these miths to rest. It is amazing how many stories come from this red fuel thing. I have been using red fuel for 30 years with no problems. I guess some people think tractors, dozers, and other farm equipment are built different from our trucks. Thanks again, I just hope some of the people will listen to a REAL expert.

 

[Big_Bad_Dually]

Wait

SteveH:

My friend withthe GM6. 2L just read this after I told him about it. and he told me he also put in A WHOLE 1/2 GALLON OF POWER SERVICE diesel treatment that can't be good. I might have been feeling things though too when i went for a ride. I also know that the die won't make it smoke, but could all that power service?

thanks steve



You Guys are great,

brian

 

[Champane Flight]

Here you go

Finally got the scanner to do what I wanted. The stuff we use is not quite as harmless as thought. But injected at such a small amount it wouldn't make much difference at all in performance. It does contain a couple of good corrosives.



#ad

 

[SteveH]

Murle, thanks for the kind words. I noticed you are from Grandbury. I was raised in Goldthwaite, down the road a ways, just south of Brownwood. Went to school at Tarleton my first year and finished up at SWTSU



BigBadDiesel,

Yes the extra shot of Power Service Treatment would make nearly any motor smoke like a banshee.

Steve H

 

[JohnE]

Colorants is also used in aviation as a visual cue for <em>octane</em>/<em>performance numbers</em> of your fuels.



Fuel supplements abuse? I haven't read anything on <em>Power Service&reg</em>;, but both <em>Howes Lubricator&reg;</em> Meaner Power Cleaner and Diesel Treat labels state &quot;Over-use is not harmful&quot;.



Steve;

If all fuels are created how do stations sell #2 and Premium #2?

My Cummins does let me know if the quality level of the fuel is changed from fillup to fillup. Skipping a regular dosing of supplement brings a complaint. I really notice it with winter blend fuels. The Montana winter blend I got was only 15% #1 and it produced very loud chatter.



MHO



-John

 

[Champane Flight]

Premium diesel

Your Premium diesels are in most cases just an additive package on top of your regular Diesel. We have a different additives and injection rate for winter and summer premium diesel.



I do not use a lot of additives in my truck and try to stick to a twice a season additive thing. I use Amzoil centane booster in the winter in every third tankful. Then I use Amzoil diesel modifier in every third fillup in the summer. I do notice it quiet down a little and run a little better(maybe just my imagination) after a dose of modifier.

 

[SteveH]

Champane Flight is right in that additive packages can and do change the cetane number slightly, just like octane additives in the gassers. I know that the diesel we make goes out to many different stations that do not market the product under the Exxon name, each of these can put their own additive packages into the product and advertise it as they wish. I personally do not use any additives. I've bought several from Amsoil and from Campers World but they are still sitting in the garage, I'll try them out some day.



JohnE - I can't speak for all the producers in Montana because Cenex and Conoco also have refineries up here. I know that some stations phase-in the winter blend. They start out with a mild #1 mix like you mention and as colder months get here, they will end up with a 50/50 mix of #1 and #2. Many stations never custom mix a winter blend, they simply have a set of pumps for #1 and a different pump for #2 and the customer can run whatever mixture they want. I run straight #1 during the winter because we see temps of -25 several times every winter. There is a noticeable loss of mileage during the winter and a little power loss will go along with it because there are fewer BTU's in the #1 as the same volume of #2.



If any of you ever get a chance, read up on how the truly functional "anti-gel" or winter diesel additive actually works. They play with the polarization of the diesel molecules so they pass end to end through the system instead of randomely passing through. I personally have no knowledge on these but if the claims are correct, they are pretty technical.

Steve H

 

[JJW_ND]

Straight #1....Really!

I just read the last few pages of this and seem to notice a #1 vs #2 vs Premium.



I am a firm believer in Premium Diesel fuels (Cenex Roadmaster).



I also notice a post from Steve about running Straight #1 in the winter. FYI, I have NOT ran any #1 or blend over the last three winters. In fact in over 14,000 gallons of fuel I have ran through my 96, I have burned about 80 gallons of number 1 the first winter 96/97.



I use Cenex and Roadmaster. Summer and winter. Most stations have seperate #1 and #2 pumps all winter. No blends at least at the larger ones. I add Stanadyne once air temps drop below -5. I drive my truck every day and it sits out all day at work. I have put on lots of miles with zero problems. If temps would go below -30 and my truck was to sit out, I might add some #1. But even that is rare for ND.



jjw

ND

 

[illflem]

I'm with JJW. I used to have the #1&2 blend delivered to my 1000 ga farm tank every winter. About five years ago I switched to 2 gals Howe's per 1000 #2 with no problems to -30°. I didn't like the poor fuel economy, low power and most of all the throat burning fumes the #1 created.

 

[RDavidson]

red vs green

You can run red if you like but if you get caught you should change your name to shootyourownfoot. $5000. 00 max possible on the first offense. I have seen the DOT in Birmingham do fuel inspections on the side of the road, in town. Oiling the fuel won't help if they use litmus paper. If they think you might be on red and you've doctored the fuel they have a nice white van with a full assortment of filter wrenches and a lab in Montgomery. If that's not enough yet they can, if they catch you, audit your books and check all your vehicles for red and contact your fuel supplier and audit your fuel supplier and, and, and. Sounds like a great way to spend 3 to 5 years.

 

[JohnE]

We're kinda drifting around the subject line, but it has mostly stayed on track?



Steve;

I passed through Montana moving back to my home state of Minnesota. I stopped for fuel in Missoula and Billings and the stations where I stopped all posted &quot;winter blend fuel&quot;. In Glendive, a Sinclair station pumped straight #2 with a hefty adding of <em>Power Service&reg;</em>, bless them. The clatter left and the power increased.



I'm about 200 miles east of JJW and also burn straight #2 all winter along with a hefty amount of <em>Howe's&reg; Diesel Treat</em>. When the temps hit -20&deg; the ol Cummins really chugs, but doesn't have a gelled fuel stumble.



I was at the family farm tonight. The 30 year old JD 4000 was in the driveway hooked to the politician's wagon (manure spreader). The 4000 has burned only red fuel in the 10,000 + plus hours on the clock with NO engine problems. Bugger to start in cooler weather if you forget to plug it in for a few hours (no glowplugs).



I pass many Cummins, JD, & Cat powered equipment every day. These have burned only red fuel all their life.



Come to think of it, all the fuel furnaces around here burn dyed fuel without any problem. My dad burned #2 from an outside tank at our old shop. He had a &frac34; inch line from the tank until it was a foot or so inside. That was enought to raise the temps beyond gelling before it dropped to the 3/8 inch line to the furnace.



Red fuel brings risks, but not due to engine related problems.



MHO



-John