Is ROTELLA® T Synthetic 5W-40 really Synthetic?

[RustyJC]

See post #16 - Mobil 1 is indeed a blend - of Group 4 and Group 5 constituents. With all respect, check some sources other than Amsoil literature.



Rusty

 

[Diesel Power]

See post #16 - Mobil 1 is indeed a blend - of Group 4 and Group 5 constituents. With all respect, check some sources other than Amsoil literature.



Rusty

your right mobil does have some real synthetic base to it,but it's still not 100%, it cost them too much money to make it 100% and still feel like there making the money that they are now, amsoil and redline have been living off of the pure synthetic consept for years. it pretty obvious that mobil wants money, not quality------just look at the margin of profit last year on gas alone. you think that there minds are changing when going to motor oil, i dont think so

 

[RustyJC]

Since a lot of the Amsoil internet traffic tied Mobil's alleged use of Group III base stocks to the introduction of their "Tri-Synthetic" formulation:

From: -- email address removed -- (Jay W Ford)

To: XXXXXXXXXX



Thanks for your e-mail. The following is to answer your question:



1. Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic is a blend of alkylated naphthalene (Group V), PAO

(Group IV) and ester (Group V).

.

.

.

I don't know how it can be any more clear than that.



Rusty

 

[Diesel Power]

allright you win

 

[RobertP]

Since a lot of the Amsoil internet traffic tied Mobil's alleged use of Group III base stocks to the introduction of their "Tri-Synthetic" formulation:



I don't know how it can be any more clear than that.



Rusty

still wont catch me running it in my truck

 

[redram]

Synthetic Rotella T 5w40 is a Group III synthetic oil.

API Group I, II, IIA, and III are considered mineral oils with the II's and III's being marketed as 'synthetic' due to the US Gov't. NAD ruling in the Castrol Mobil Chemical lawsuit several years ago that set precedent that the 'hydrocracked further refined mineral oils' ( API group II and group III) can now be called 'synthetic'.



Cooker - don't know anyone in the lubrication business that would call a group II a synthetic except in marketing terms. I've even seen papers by the major oil companies who produce both synthetic (API Group IV and Group V) and hydrocracked oils claim the Group III's approach the performance of Group IV's but lack the pour point without heavy additization and can have additive solubility issues. Oo.

 

[redram]

... . are you kiding me, synthetic means its made entirerly by a non- carbon chemicle make up, there are only a few of these, PAO,ESTER both of which are in all amsoil products.

ummmm Diesel Power - PAO's aka 'poly alpha olefins'. Where an olefin is a hydrocarbon - and poly meaning 'multiple so a PAO is a a chain of H-C molecules. Oo.

 

[redram]

... . make it 100% l:

Explain to me how being 100% of anything is possibly an advantage?



100% lye soap will tear / burn your skin off.



100% sodium is a poison

100% chlorine is a poison



Without a mixture of sodium and chlorides in our diet as humans we will eventually die (NACl or more commonly known as salt).



Why is 100% anything more than a 'marketing term' for Amsoil!



If I could take horse **** and make it out perform Amsoil why would you care if it was 100% 'synthetic'?



Just curious? Oo.

 

[RaymondSmith]

Thanks for all of the input. I have ran Mobil 1 in all of my past 6 rigs. I could not find the diesel version readily available for my new truck so that's why I chose the Rotella. I'll run the Rotella this change since it is already in my garage. Next change I'll try to find a real full synthetic.



I know some people question why run synthetics. It seems like everyone has their own reasons. What sold me on synthetics was when I had a look at the inside of one of my (gas) engines when the head gaskets were replaced at 90K miles. The inside of that engine looked brand new. There wasn't even a sign of a ridge at the top of the cylinder bore. When I sold the truck at over 180K miles it was still spotless when looking through the oil filler cap on the valve cover. I know this isn't very scientific but like I said, it sold me.



Thanks again for all the constructive input.



Ray

 

[Diesel Power]

Explain to me how being 100% of anything is possibly an advantage?



100% lye soap will tear / burn your skin off.



100% sodium is a poison

100% chlorine is a poison



Without a mixture of sodium and chlorides in our diet as humans we will eventually die (NACl or more commonly known as salt).



Why is 100% anything more than a 'marketing term' for Amsoil!



If I could take horse **** and make it out perform Amsoil why would you care if it was 100% 'synthetic'?



Just curious? Oo.

a 100% syn base stock, a 100% syn additive package makes it a 100% synthetic. mobil 1's 20% synthetic base stock and 60% dino base stock, along with the 20% additive package--------- that may have PAO in it but it's not 100% synthetic... ..... get my point

 

[Cooker]

Cooker - don't know anyone in the lubrication business that would call a group III synthetic except in marketing terms. I've even seen papers by the major oil companies who produce both synthetic (API Group IV and Group V) and hydrocracked oils claim the Group III's approach the performance of Group IV's but lack the pour point without heavy additization and can have additive solubility issues. Oo.

redram,

I realize now that I did not make my point very clear but the reason I put the word synthetic in italics was to express that although Group III's are called synthetics, they are not in the true sense of the word. This would assume that the reader knew what a Group III was to start with and obviously this is not the case. I should have made a clearer distinction when typing this A. M. but I was in a hurry to get out the door for work.

 

[amsoilman]

Group III oils only "earned" the right to be called synthetics after Castrol and Mobil fought it out in court. The court basically ruled that, since no legal definition of the word "synthetic" existed in the industry, the ultra-refined Group III base stock Castrol used could be marketed as a synthetic.



Depending on what the user wants, he/she would be well-advised to find out if the synthetic they're considering purchasing is a Group III (hydrocarbon) or Group IV (polyalphaolefin, or PAO) based oil.



Rusty

WELL SAID RUSTY!



Wayne

 

[betterthanstock]

The group 3 synthetic (hydrocracked petroleum) is the safest for your oil seals, and gaskets. They are not true synthetics, but hydrocracking removes the bad crud that forms slimy deposits that clog your engine in regular mineral oil, and the stuff that cokes in your turbo at high temperature. Also they save you fuel in cold starts if you use 5W-40, and they have less volatility and flammability than regular mineral oils.



Esters are the worst, and they are largely used in air conditioners for their properties at very cold temperatures. They absorb water from the air, and form acids. They can clean sludge in older engines, and clog your filters, or oil cooling jets. They can form polymer (polyester) deposits when reacting with some chemicals. They also cause your oil seals to swell and leak under certain conditions, though some newer seals are made of viton or such, to resist ester damage.

It's best to not mix esters with mineral oils, and to start early on an engine before any sludge has deposited, and before the seals have aged.

Group 3 has no such concerns, so you can change and mix oils as you like.

 

[DPellegrin]

It really gets me goin when I see all these amsoil dealers coming on here bashing the rotella synthetic the truth is rotella cost about half of what amsoil is and im not sure of this but I dont believe amsoil has an actual api certification they claim to be up to standared and they probably are but I dont think they have the actual certification. I have been running Rotella synthetic in my truck for about 40,000 miles and I think its great

 

[RMalone]

Its all moot, you could mix and match brands, change brands every oil change and I bet given the same change intervals (not extended, synth would win for sure), the engine would last just as long as one run on full synthetic. Amsoil claims in their literature that you can mix their synthetic with regular dino just don't expect to extend your change intervals as far.



That said, I run a 5-40 synthetic becuase it makes cold starts far easier than 15-40 dino.



Guys how often in this day and age do you hear of oil related failures (assuming some dumb ***** didn't forget to fill it or ran it out of oil)??

 

[BK]

Lots, worked at a garage... the problem was the extended oil change intervals the manual suggested. . due to the higher temps in certain areas of the engines for emissions, the journals coked up, clogged and destroyed engines.

If they followed a 2K-3K change every 3-4months, wouldn't have happened. They went strictly for the 6K-7K changes... as per the owner's manual. . and popped engines.



A certain V6 on the Toyota's , big problem, and we called the Ford Explores, Exploders... Same thing. . a few others manufacturers had some engines suffer the same problem. . all the badness I've seen, no one can convince me of extended changes.



Additives only last soo long... never mind the oil.

 

[betterthanstock]

Lots, worked at a garage... the problem was the extended oil change intervals the manual suggested. . due to the higher temps in certain areas of the engines for emissions, the journals coked up, clogged and destroyed engines.

If they followed a 2K-3K change every 3-4months, wouldn't have happened. They went strictly for the 6K-7K changes... as per the owner's manual. . and popped engines.



A certain V6 on the Toyota's , big problem, and we called the Ford Explores, Exploders... Same thing. . a few others manufacturers had some engines suffer the same problem. . all the badness I've seen, no one can convince me of extended changes.



Additives only last soo long... never mind the oil.

The synthetics have almost none of the deposit forming impurities and some have no viscosity index improvers, so they will not clog the engines.

The older Dodge 2. 7 V6 has the same problem. If you look at stoplights, when an Intrepid accelerates, it will give a puff of blue smoke. It's on its last legs, before major engine failure. (usually under 100K miles)

The solution is not to change the oil every 3000, but to use synthetic. Changing every 3000 with mineral, adds fresh impurities, which will build up before your next oil change. Synthetics have higher operating temperature.



Many years back I ran a test by heating up oil in a spoon over a propane torch. The mineral took about 1 minute to cook to black, and to catch fire.

Then I used PROLONG. It burned up horribly in about 30 seconds, and left a lot of black gunk. Last, I used a synthetic. I kept heating, and heating it, and it wouldn't burn up. Try this for yourself.