Is the synthetic you are using really synthetic???

[SilverFox]

I have been following a thread on another forum that I find most informative. One of the members there has done excellent research on synthetic oil and oil that is called synthetic that is not really synthetic. He backs up his posts' with documentation that can't be denied. If you would like to really learn something about the oil we use in our trucks go here

 

[Cooker]

The Group III "Synthetic" issue has been brought up here several times as well.



I didn't read the entire post, but is was mentioned that Amsoil is a Group IV synthetic. Some of Amsoils products are Group III oils.



It looks like RustyJC was over there hanging out too

 

[SilverFox]

Yes the group III synthetic is no more a synthetic than the cheapest dino oil on the market. It's just a more refined dino oil. The only reason it can be called a synthetic is because of a court ruling. As I understand it, there's not a drop of synthetic in group III synthetic.

 

[Cooker]

Originally posted by SilverFox

the group III synthetic is no more a synthetic than the cheapest dino oil on the market. It's just a more refined dino oil. The only reason it can be called a synthetic is because of a court ruling. As I understand it, there's not a drop of synthetic in group III synthetic.

That is absolutely correct.

 

[DPKetchum]

Was told a while back that Mobil and Castrol had a court thing about that and Mobil lost. It was over the Castrol line syntech that its not a really a synthetic. Mobil took to court over improper advertising etc. P. S. Just read the link and THATS what I was told. shoukd have read it first! In fact i was told that by a AMSOIL Tech Line guy.

 

[LightmanE300]

Yes, Castrol did win the court case, resulting in them being allowed to call SynCrap synthetic. If one is after the full benefits of synthetic oil, one should go for a full group 4 synthetic, like delvac 1 or amsoil, among others. These are pricy up front but allow longer drain intervals so the cost and saved time pretty much evens out the difference. Otherwise don't waste your money on syncrap or amsoil 7500(group 3), just use regular dino like d1300 super or your choice...

 

[DPKetchum]

The tech assistance guy at Amsoil said that Amsoil was very dissapointed in that lost court case. Said amsoil was ready to kinda jump in but by the time it was discussed Mobil had lost.

 

[badams1]

Mobil 1 guy

Ok you are all right about the catagory 4 blend stock being the real deal. That was an excellent article about the Mobil 1 case against Castor oil Syntec and the rest about the catagory 3 blend stocks and iffy advertising in other products (Shell Rotella) is correct so buyer beware. Now, how can anyone be positive about any of the brands after that case rulling. Any brand can claim full synthetic and get away with it. Not even API can help us here, so who is selling the real synthetic catagory 4 and above blend base oils? If you were manufacturing and selling oil and was not going to have profit/product give-away what would you be tempted to do after that case result. What company rep. reading this is willing to go on record and declare that their product (diesel 15/40 rated) is cat 4 and better once and for all.

 

[SilverFox]

Rear end synthetic??

I musta been the only one on TDR that didn't know that some motor oils that were marked synthetic weren't. Guess I was on a road trip or something when those discussions took place.



Ok we have established that only class IV and V synthetic motor oils are true synthetic. What about our differential synthetic oil? Does GL-5 mean that we are really getting a synthetic? At least Mopar manual transmission oil is not marked synthetic so we know what we are getting.



I just bought 5 gallons of Shell Spirax S (GL-5) rear end oil and am wondering if it is real synthetic. Spirax S is much cheaper than Mopar differential oil and both are GL-5 oils so I'm hoping that both are real synthetic. Anybody know for certain?

 

[badams1]

Mobil 1 Guy again!

See now that is just my point! YOU DON'T KNOW! At least anymore now after that ruling! How do we really know for sure that we are getting the quality product that we want and pay the already established high price for now? Some manufacturers will tell you that the additive package is more important than the blend stock to B. S, you into being a grinning idiot. I hate testamonies and hear-say so where's the beef? They have adjusted their so-called synthetic products to contain mineral oil and catagory 3 dino to meet the new lower standard to be more profitable. Where is the Amsoil guy and the Royal Purple guy and the real Mobil 1 guy's? Come on, any body ready to put into writting what their blend stock is now.



Just for general information the 4 ball wear test is non repeatable. that is why nobody uses it for API standard rating. You can use the same oil from the same bottle and do the same test over and over and all of the wear readings will differ considerably. " Any oil", so if you are going to use this test to demonstrate an oil's lubricating ability against another product all you have to do is use their worst result and publish it against your oil products best result. Interesting aint it. That is a quote from a petro eng. :--) Profit is the motive period. Cost to produce and margin if profit. Customer loyalty Hummmmmmmm?

 

[WadePatton]

Re: Mobil 1 Guy again!

Originally posted by badams1

Just for general information the 4 ball wear test is non repeatable. that is why nobody uses it for API standard rating. You can use the same oil from the same bottle and do the same test over and over and all of the wear readings will differ considerably...

It is a pretty cheesey "test" and a tired one at that, maybe they'll come up with something better soon.



I'm pretty sure my oil is synthetic--it's called Amsoil Diesel/Marine 15/40.



I'm adding a bypass filtration system as soon as it gets here--I like the argument that CLEAN oil is better than ANY dirty oil. I guess I'll find out in 7-10 years.

 

[Cooker]

Re: Mobil 1 Guy again!

Originally posted by badams1

Some manufacturers will tell you that the additive package is more important than the blend stock to B. S, you into being a grinning idiot.

I don't agree 100% with this statement. The additive package is just as important as the carrier oil that it is in. To have a great oil both must be present. One without the other and you still have a mediocre oil.

 

[dieselpilot1969]

Oh great what another fine mess?:{

 

[rblomquist]

Originally posted by LightmanE300

e. Otherwise don't waste your money on syncrap or amsoil 7500(group 3), .

Great info, I was just going to buy some of that amsoil 7500 for the wife's Accord which I have been running Mobil 1 forever. I thought Amsoil's claim to fame was synthetic everything? How did you guys find out that the 7500 is a group 3 oil?



Thanks much

 

[DPKetchum]

I think its on the label. the full 25,000 mile Amsoil is what is equal to Mobil 1. The amsoil 7500 is equal to Castrol syntech. I run the Amsoil full 25,000 mile oil in a 1985 chevy caprice classic with a 305 4bbl. Change oil filter and top off every 7500 miles and change totaly around 25k. Its got as of tonight 194k and change. Its driven a 100 miles a day 5 days a week.

 

[illflem]

You can pretty much tell by the price which "synthetics" are group III or IV. Group III are little more expendsive than dino but not as expendsive as PAO

 

[Wiredawg]

Just put Rotella Synthetic in my wife's truck.

I just bought Rotella Synthetic at Wally World and changed my wife's truck tonight. Y'all mean it's not full synthetic? I read the front and back of the bottle and thought it was full syn. I thought the API would mean something.



So, what did i buy? What makes this synthetic?



Wiredawg



I just answered my own question after reading the extended article at beginning of post. Is API engineers so short sighted that they could not reach the conclusion the that synthetic is ALL manmade?



a sad state of affairs!

 

[badams1]

Mobil 1 guy again

The obvious statement about a good additive package being necessary to produce an excellent oil is correct but a catagory 4 blend stock is also the requirement for the best product. A cat 5 blend stock will never be used for normal market motor oil unless you are driving the space shuttle. Way too expensive no doubt! Thats about it and I am still waiting for a technical rep to reply to the question of what is in their product blend stock. I will be suprised if we get a straight answer but I can hear them snickering in the closet. Come on! Come on! To bad that this thread was taken out of the mainstream so fast. Hummmmmm?

 

[DPKetchum]

I want to know about gear oil and atf!Oo.

 

[SilverFox]

I went back to the thread on the other forum that I referenced on the first post in this thread and according to the research done there, backed up with the most reliable references available, the only off the shelf true synthetic is Mobil 1. He goes on to say that Amsoil also sells a true synthetic. He also states in another post on the same thread that Redline sells a true synthetic. There may be others such as Royal Purple that are true synthetic.



As far as I can tell, again from the posts referenced above, ATF synthetic in most cases is dino. This also goes for gear oil that we buy off the shelf with the exception of Mobil. Amsoil and Redline aren't off the shelf oils and again I don't know about Royal Purple. If you use Royal Purple you could call and ask if their base stock is group IV or V.



I tried to find Amsoil listed on one of the stock exchanges and I can't find it. That must mean it is a privately held company so it's hard to tell just how big the company is. If it is a small company it's hard to believe they actually make their own product. It could be that they buy from Mobil add a dye and resell. Maybe one of the Amsoil experts has had a tour of the plant and know if they repackage and resale or actually make their product. The truth might be hard to come by.



Redline is listed on the over the counter market (AMEX) but their performance is not very good. Their price earnings ratio (P/E) is -1. 25 and the earnings per share (EPS) is -3. 36. Market Cap is 20. 6 million. Redline is definitely a small company with no earnings and in fact they are losing a ton of money so it's reasonable to conclude (but still may not be correct) that they buy from someone like Mobil, add a dye, repackage and resale.



Another point I'd like to make again is that group III synthetic has NO SYNTHETIC in it, it's all dino.



I'm guessing here but I believe Mopar rear end synthetic is not! At least the Mopar manual transmission oil is not mislabeled.



I really wanted to use a synthetic in my rear end and just bought 5 gallons of Shell Spirax S and now know it is dino oil but does meet the requirements for the axel so that's what I'll use. Just didn't get what I thought I was getting. :{