Is the synthetic you are using really synthetic???

[badams1]

Mobil 1 guy with some answers

This morning bright and early, I talked to an Amsoil tech, a Mobil1 tech and a Royal Purple industrial rep. Here's what they say about their products. Mobil 1, 0w-30w on through 15w-50 including Delvac 1 are all PAO, meaning catagory 4 and 5 blend stocks and no cat 3 dino oil is in their formula's. The Amsoil tech claims all of their 2000 series and 15w-40w diesel marine oils are PAO catagory 4 and above. The 7500 series is a blend as it is stated and costs less accordingly. I limited my questions to specifics so if you find out more come on with it. Both companies claim superior additive packages in their products. They have not compromized their products because of the aforementioned case ruling with Castor Oil. The answer here is they are as advertised and are worth the cost of a 100% synthetic oil. Royal Purple 15w-40w is a blend but claims it is synthetic because IT IS LEGAL. However like most companies selling oil they claim that their propriatary additive package makes up for the blending of cheaper blendstocks. The performance is in the pudding here and your peace of mind based on facts is reality not hear-say, OK!. This was only a small section study but it proves to me that at least these first two companies did not compromize their products quality for profit and that is good news. I too wish I knew of the best synthetic product to use in my NV5600 six speed. Right now I have 0w-30 2000 Amsoil in it but I don't know if it is really a best application. If you have "proof" that there is a best product out there that conforms to the warrenty or exceeds it then shoot. I hate to spend triple the price for Dodge products too.

 

[RustyJC]

Based solely on price, I would think that Royal Purple motor oil is a Group 4 PAO-based product. I've scoured their home page, MSDS sheets, product sheets, etc. and, unfortunately, they never directly state that theirs is a Group 4 product.



One of the articles they cite for independent testing, however, is linked HERE. Read in its entirety, this article talks about the benefits of PAO lubricants and then dyno-tests a vehicle using dino oil and then Royal Purple. The reader is left to conclude that Royal Purple must, therefore, be PAO based.



Rusty

 

[esommer2500]

I use Valvoline Premium Blue. I used to buy it as Schied's here in Lafayette, and specified a synthetic. After my Dad started working at Kenworth, I had him get it for me. He couldn't find a synthetic at that time, but a synthetic BLEND, which was what I had been using. The next time I had him get a case, it was a 'true' synthetic, apparently not blended? I think it is now called Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme, I don't have the case sitting here at school, it's at home so I will have to check to be sure.



After searching through Valvoline's website, I found a data sheet that states that Extreme uses "high-quality synthetic basestocks and a boosted additive system. "







Eric

 

[badams1]

Mobil 1 guy working it!

I fired a shot across the bow of Royal Purple this morning with an E mail to David who is an engineer and reads TDR and drives a 12 valve. I understand that he may be in Las Vagas selling oil at one of those boone doggel's but maybe one of his buddy's will alert him of this contraversy. Too bad this thread is being moved out of the lime lite because we have them on the run. I personally like the price and quality of both Amsoil and Mobil1 Delvac and believe that they are both on the top of the list for quality to price ratio with Amsoil having a slight edge in price and thats a good thing. We will see if R/P is really a 100% PAO with their diesel oil or not and maybe they can recommend their other products claiming to be synthetic base on blend stock quality as well as additive agents also. Like no catagory 3 cheapo filler. Their Tech article sure lead you to believe that they were 100% PAO but the guy I talked to on the phone today indicated that they are a blend and at that price!!!! Lets see what they say about their GL-5, GL-6, NV5600 dodge six speed lubricants and the rest of their products that relate to the Dodge Cummins Diesel. I am going to sit here and hold my breath :--)

 

[Cooker]

esommer2500,

The PB Extreme is a Group III Synthetic. This is not to say that it is bad, just be careful how much you are paying for it. I wouldn't pay more than $12-$14 per gallon for a Group III.



badams1,

I am 99% certain the RP is a PAO.

 

[SilverFox]

Since they moved this thread I'm sure it will die a quick death. I was really enjoying it and learning a lot...



Here is a quote from the Royal Purple web site: "Royal Purple's reputation as a leading manufacturer of highly advanced industrial and automotive lubricants is due to its proprietary Synerlec® additive technology. As a result Royal Purple is frequently asked, what is Synerlec®? Obviously its chemical make-up is proprietary and cannot be divulged, as it would jeopardize Royal Purple's competitive advantage in the market. "



Just the fact that they do not come right out and say it's base stock is synthetic makes me suspect. In fact they don't mention base stock at all but only refer to "Synerlec® additive technology". I'm not saying that it's really dino oil but if I used synthetic oil in my engine it would be Mobil synthetic or Amsoil synthetic.



Here is the quote from the Mobil web site that corresponds to the Royal Purple quote above: "Mobil 10W-40 is made with a patented proprietary blend of ultra high performance synthetic basestocks fortified with Supersyn Antiwear Technology, the most advanced additive system available today. Mobil 1 0W-40's wide viscosity range provides unsurpassed levels of protection, fuel savings and the best overall smooth driving experience. "



Notice that Mobil does say its product comes from synthetic base stock.

 

[Cooker]

Here is a quote I pulled from the RP site:



"Royal Purple® manufactures a wide range of high performance, synthetic lubricants for every use from top fuel dragsters to the family car, motorcycles, RVs and boats. Its industry experts are consistently developing products that outperform leading mineral-based and synthetic lubricants in performance and protection. "

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by SilverFox

Just the fact that they do not come right out and say it's base stock is synthetic makes me suspect. In fact they don't mention base stock at all but only refer to "Synerlec® additive technology.

Let's not get the cart ahead of the horse regarding RP. I'm neither defending nor attacking it, but their MSDS sheets for their multigrade motor oils indicate that the Chemical Family is "synthetic based lubricating oil" and, under Components, it states "Base Oil (synthetic) - Synthetic additives with iso-paraffinic dilutents. " This description is consistent with a Group 4 PAO that uses mineral oil as a carrier for the additive package, which is normal practice. Let's wait and see how Royal Purple responds to badams1's inquiry before we make any unwarranted assumptions.



Rusty

 

[illflem]

Since they moved this thread I'm sure it will die a quick death. I was really enjoying it and learning a lot...

To the contrary since this thread was moved it is getting more views.



Many people don't read the 3rd gen forum and were missing it.

The subject applies to all generations since they all need oil.

 

[SilverFox]

illflem,

Hope you are right about the move. What you say does make sense. I'm relatively new here and have never clicked on this forum.

 

[DPKetchum]

Badams1 did you not ask the Amsoil guy about lubes for the nv5600?

 

[RDietze]

what oil is in the cummins at delivery? is it Valvoline Premium Blue? is valvoline premium blue group 3 also?



thanks

03 3500 ho

 

[DPKetchum]

That was posted a while back its not synthetic. Its a standard oil.

 

[illflem]

Make's sense since synthetic oils aren't recommended for break-in

 

[BillGotthelf]

Badams1-you did not mention the Amsoil 3000 series Heavy Duty Diesel Oil. It also is a Group 4 base oil and the longevity (amsoil rec-25,000 miles drain interval) and price would prove that out. I seriously doubt they would just buy and repackage Mobils Synthetic. They may use their base but I would be willing to bet they have multiple additive packages. After all I believe all synthetic Group 4 BASE STOCKS are probably the same.

 

[DPKetchum]

I know from talking to amsoil tech reps that they DON'T sure any business that they would ever let on with MOBIL.

 

[dieselpilot1969]

Ok so how do you know if it's a class 3 or 4, does it say on the jug or where?

 

[TractorNut]

Not sure where this thread has been. . but I must have been hiding under a rock. . and Sure am Glad it is here... I use a Dino oil. . (John Deere's +50 15-40) but wife's pride and joy is a BMW. . and BMW uses the Castrol oil. . and oil changes are set for about 15,000 miles... She has about 5000 miles on this oil change. . and I think its going to be time to change it after reading this thread. . and I will quiz the BMW techs. . after the free oil changes run out we'll look at a different oil...

Keep us posted. . I had been looking at the RP oil. . but decided to stick with my JD oil... they have a true synthic out (I think. . ) . . I'm just waiting for a 15-40... .

Thanks for the info guys...

Bryan

 

[SilverFox]

dieselpilot1969,



I don't think you are likely to see the oil class on the oil container. It's apparently hard to find. In most cases it can be found on the web site of the selling company. This thread has established, to my satisfaction, that Mobil, Amsoil, Redline and most believe Royal Purple sell a true synthetic oil. There may be others.



TractorNut,



Mercedes has gone to Mobil 1 in their 4. 3L V-8 and 3. 2L V-6 engines and I think that's the oil that now comes from the factory in all the Mercedes engines. Only know for sure about the 4. 3 and the 3. 2. Mobil 1 is being used from day one, no break-in with dino oil. This all happened about a year ago. The Mercedes quarterly magazine had an article on the reason for the change about the time the dealers switched everyone to Mobil 1.



Not only that but while I was at the Dodge dealer the other day I was casually looking at little Dodge sports car and a salesman came over and said, "it has a Mercedes engine in it". He lifted the hood and I saw the 3. 2L V-6. I was shocked to see a sticker located in a prominent place stating to use Mobil 1 oil only. I don't remember the model of the sports car but it should be easy to find one of these at any Dodge dealer. My dealer sells 99% trucks but he had this car in the show room.



If you plan to go 15000 miles between oil changes on your BMW, I believe you would be well served to use a synthetic after the free oil changes run out and I wouldn't go over 7500 miles with the dino the dealer is putting in your wife's BMW.

 

[HEYBOSS]

Very informative and educational Thread.



Couple questions, what is Mobil Delvac 1 Synthetic 5w40? Is it the true Synthetic oil? If it is why is it that Amsoil add on tdr issue claims that regular oils did better on their wear scar test? In fact Mobil Delvac did worse in 2000 year test then in 1996.



A quote from RV Roadie at the iRv2 site goes on to say



" One thing synthetics can't do. They cannot make combustion contaminants from the cylinders and other parts they lubricate magically disappear.



Synthetics also get contaminated by those carbons, acids, water molecules from condensate, and a host of other contaminants.



So you have to buy additional filters, and do regular tests on your oil to know when the synthetic is full of conataminants, and needs to be changed.



A case could be made for using those filters/systems with conventional oils and getting similar results right?



But then we have to consider that oil breaks down right? Wrong! That is also a myth!



True synthetics made from PAOs do have much better flow at low temperatures folks.

That is what they were designed for. So they can help with wear and tear on cold startup and cold weather. That seems to be their primary advantage. And proven valid. "



Is this why on my the Dodge owner's manual says that synthetic oils can be used but the same service intervals must be maintained, then it would make sense. Also on TDR issue 41 pg 93

during a presentation by Cummins personal they mentioned that TDR members bomb their engines and some use synthetic oils and extend the change interval, sometimes indefinitely. This is not authorized by either Cummins or Dodge.