Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) ISB KDP info & Service Manual Question

[Ncostello]

I called Cummins today to see if I could find out if my ISB has the improved front gear housing that is stepped to prevent the dowel pin from leaping into the gears. After some discussion, I was put on hold so the person could do a little research.



Basically, my build date was all that was really needed (10/21/98). Cummins person said that the improved covers were not physically installed onto the engines until some point during the 1999 calendar year. Which means mine should most likely have the old style cover since its build date is in 1998... . which is bad. Just thought I'd pass along the information I was given from the Source.



Also I ordered the service manual at the number in the back of the owners manual. I asked the person if the manual consisted of two volumes because I have seen and read about some owners receiving two rather large books. The person told me that the computer only showed 1 book and that any possibility of there being two sent to me were slim. She didn't say impossible however. Will two show up, or do I have to order the other separately from somewhere else? I think its a supplement for the ISB's. Maybe I'm wrong about this. Thanks.

 

[illflem]

Your kdp info confirms what a Cummins tech told me. I have edited the 12 valve kdp thread to include early 24s

http://216.235.147.117/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=317066#post317066

 

[A Johnson]

Here is what I have:



ISB and QSB Troubleshooting and Repair manual

P/N 3666193-01 Printed 2/99 (engine t&r)



ISB and QSB Electronic Control System

Volume I and II

P/N 3666194-01 Printed 5/99

(keep in mind this is for the Cummins ECM with 2-50 pin connectors)



I would imagine there is a manual for the single connector on the DC ECM I just don't have it and I can't find it on Quickserve online.



I would call back and find out what they sold you as there are the T&R manuals and the owner manuals available , but the owners manual has info on service intervals and such and not as much technical stuff.



For the old 12 valve mechanical engines P/N 3666037 is a book on pumps and injectors.



Hope this is more help than confusion.



A Johnson

 

[Ncostello]

Sounds good to me illflem. I'm waiting on a VP 44 to arrive in the mail so I can install it. I figured while I was at it, I'd go ahead and seize my dowel pin with a tab.



TDR issue 38 page 136 Editors note: "As to when the stepped bore case went into production, I was advised by Cummins that it was introduced at the very start of 24-valve engine production", prompted me to call them and see what they had to say to me.



I feel that the recent info I got could be more correct (accurate) than the editors note (No offense editors). Good enough for me anyway. It does not pay me to ignore it any longer Hope this helps other 24v'ers.



A. Johnson - I'm sure I got the T&R manual. It was $100! I better not get some owners manual. I'll have to wait and see what comes in the mail... and call them to see what the title of the manual is.

 

[jrobinson2]

I suppose that means my 02/02/1999 engine is susceptible

Has anyone talked to the shops that do cam installs (piers DD ect) on the 24 valves to see if they have or will keep track of build dates with the new cover?



Jared

 

[Ncostello]

Good idea Jared. It may be possible to narrow down the time at which new covers were being installed. We may not be able to find the first engine with the new cover but the earliest known may provide a means by which to judge the possibility of other engines.



Assuming they did not install the old covers for many months after they actually started putting the new ones on.



Maybe some kind of post that shows the earliest known build date that included the stepped cover would help. It could be updated each time earlier engines are found.

 

[rmrc]

KDP in early 99's

I'll also be following this post for more information. If I remember correctly, my 99 was built either late in 98 or early 99. I'll check again this weekend.



Keep us posted.

 

[Ncostello]

A Johnson and others:



On the service manual question, I did not order the service manual from Cummins. I ordered it from the 800 line in the back of my owners manual. I am mainly interested in having this manual for engine repair purposes... . namely replacing my VP44 myself.



From my searching here, it seems like some get 1 volume, some get 2 volumes. For a 99, some have said its only one volume. D/C publications told me the computer only shows one book.



For clarification, is this D/C manual going to show me how to replace my VP44 and remove and replace the front timing cover (including shaft seal) or did I waste my money by not buying the Cummins Powerstore manual for the ISB engine.



Basically I am interested in a manual for engine work and not so much the Dodge truck itself. I thought the Dodge Service Manual I ordered would cover most repair aspects of the Cummins. I dont need a bunch of stuff about 318's and 360's and 1500 trucks. Did I make a mistake as far as what I want?? I really cant afford $$$ to buy a manual that wont help me with my current needed repairs... . HELP!

 

[krs]

Ncostello,



I don't know whether your manual will be one or two volumes, but I do know that the complete DC manual for 1997 Ram Truck 1500-3500 is one volume and the complete manual for the 2001 trucks is two volumes. I have both of those, so I'd guess that if yours turns out to be one or two will be determined by how many complicating things they'd decided to do by your model year.



You can buy any and all of what they publish here: https://techauthority.gltghosting.c...rHome?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10051



Oh, You'll find instructions for all you want to do -it should be the same thing used in the service bay at every dealership.

 

[PROSTAR190]

I called the service manager at Cummins South to see if he could find a serial number that had the new improved cover. His reply was that there is no such thing as a new cover. He said that this info came from the factory technical engineer. So I had to replace the cover gasket and his info was correct on my 24valve. I drilled and tapped without the jig since the cover was off.

 

[illflem]

The service manager is right, in Cummins' eyes there is no new improved case, it's just a different one with the same number. I feel they did this to avoid being liable for kdp damage, to admit they had to change the case admits they realize there is a problem.



Here's a picture of the improved case looking at it from the engine side. The only difference from the old one is the small step in the middle hole.



#ad










As reported to me four '98. 5s and two '99s have had the pin cut lose causing serious damage. I'm sure there are many more I haven't heard of...

 

[BV]

My 99 manual was only 1 volume. I believe that the earlier ones came as 2 volumes - 1 truck manual and a 24v supplement.



Also - There are other manuals available like Diagnostics, Body and Electrical. There are others as well but I can't remember what they are right now due to my CRS Disease (can't remember stuff)

 

[Roger rodbolt]

Neal,

The last time that I checked you could still buy the 24V supplement separately from the '98 Ram manual for around $20 shipped. In 1998 they did come in two volumes, I have both if I may be off assistance to you.



Changing the VP44 isn't difficult but the service manual is worth the price. Follow the steps and don't get creative with the various pump keys that are available and you'll do just fine.



When I installed Pier's cam (in my '98. 5) this summer I had the opportunity to tab the KDP but decided to test one of the dowell pin jigs that was purchased by a friend. My dowel pin hadn't moved but I put the cover back on, then drilled and tapped the cover as per instructions. I used the weighted "relief valve" in lieu of the oil filler cap and a portable compressor rather then shop air. Everything went well, the jig is impressive. Afterward examination showed no chips in the engine to worry about. I recommend the jig to kill the dowel pin unless folks just like to tear in to their engines. HTH's Larry

 

[Ncostello]

Thanks for the offer Roger Rodbolt. I'll PM you if my manual seems lacking in something I need. I bet your one of the very few on earth who have used a jig while having the front cover off at the same time to see what happens. Its good to know that virtually no shavings get inside... as long as a person is very careful and deliberate to prevent such. Thats good info.

 

[15w40]

Can anyone tell me if the Killer Dowel Pin Jig will work on a 24 valve Cummins? This thread got me thinking that my April 98. 5 vintage engine is probably prone to the KDP disease. I have signed up for the jig but don’t want to delay some 12 valver from using it if it will not work for me.



Thanks in advance.

 

[illflem]

I know the jig will work on a 24 valve, what I don't know is if the same directions apply. Anyone know? Might have to write up some new instructions, I'm sure any differences will be minor.

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Yes the KDP jig works fine on the 24v. No difference in the instructions either illflem. I used it on my June build '98. 5 last spring.

 

[DSiemens]

Where do you get a jig?Oo.

 

[illflem]

You're in luck, the NW jig will be going to Canada in a few weeks. Just PM me your phone number, email and mailing addresses.



For others who want to use a jig check here

http://216.235.147.117/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35685