Islamic Cult

[lpearson]

C.F.

C. F. From what you wrote I can guarantee you have not studied the Koran. I also figured you had a Muslim friend.



Answer this---what did I take out of context???????? I quoted the verses. Violence and war and torture were there. Please be specific.



Ask your Muslim friend if you can't answer to expound on my so called errors.



When you said that he was against 9-11,--- what did you expect him to say? Since you haven't read or studied the Koran or the Hadith, you wouldn't know that deception is part of their WAR on unbelievers. Give me a break. -----He wasn't going to celebrate 9-11. in front of you or any other western infidel (oh yes this is what they call you); and he isn't going to debate me, or say yes Lowell's right about the Koran, I would like to kill you and all westeners, Jews and Christians. If he lived in a country where Muslims were the majority as elsewhere in the world he would "sing" a different tune.



The spring semister of 2001 at Metro State and the Auraria campus in Denver, the ex-Chief of Police of Denver told me that the Muslim students at school all dropped out except one, and that he had reports from his officers that they knew that something was about to happen. Funny how that is. Why did they drop out if they didn't know that they World Trade Center was about to be destroyed? Maybe your friend knew too, but I'll bet he would never tell you. These American loving Muslims are really something.



You are not educated of their culture and beliefs, and have taken your friend at face value.



I will take You up on your statement that you said that you can find scriptures in the Bible to show that Christianity is evil. -- Don't back out on this or ignor this challenge. ----- I would love to debate this with you. Have at it, lets see the scriptures.



Waiting,

Lowell

 

[Champane Flight]

You got it.

I am afraid you will be sorry. The old testament is full of hate and violence. I will start my research tomorrow. From what I understand Suri is the most violent text in the Koran. We will se how many violent verses are in the Bible.

 

[Hammerhead]

The Challange

Let's get ready to RRRRRumble... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... . In the this corner wearing the white hat is I " Bring It On" Pearson. And in this corner wearing the black hat is champagne" everybody is ok except for christians" Flight. Gentlemen an anxious audience awaits. The odds are heavily in Pearson's favor as it seems obvious that christianity is a religon about love thy neighbor as thyself,and forgiveness. While islam is about kill the infidel and slaughter the innocent and you'll get 72 virgins for your trouble on your way to paradise. I'm not one to stereo-type people but it's hard to ignore the mangle bodies of school children and slughtered innocent civilians in Isreal and believe that islam is all about Love and harmony. Give me a Freakin break. Wake up and smell the coffee before some maniac on a "jihad" trys to drown you with it

 

[Champane Flight]

Lets start out

Lets start out with a little love and forgivness from



Leviiticus 24-16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the concregation shall certainly stone him: As well the stranger, as as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the Lord he shall be put to death!



and



Numbers 23-24 Behold, the people shall rise up as a great lion, and lift up himself as a great lion: he shall not lie down until he eat of the prey, and drink the blood of the slain.



This is what we are supposed to do with other peoples and religions.



Deuteronomy 7-2 And when the Lord thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shall make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them.



And a blessing for disobeidience.



Deuteronomy 28-15 through 58 (I would get some writers cramp here. ) Heres my favorite. 56 The tender and delicate women among you which would not set the soul of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil towards the husband of her bosom, and towards her son and towards her daughter.



Then in 57 it starts with afterbirth eating and such.



Joshua 11-14 And all the spoil of these cities, and the cattle, the children of Israel took for prey among themselves; but every man they smote with the edge of the sword, until they had destroyed them, neither left they any to breathe.



Goats and cows had a hard time in these days, someone was always trying to burn them at the alter.



So in short, all this and more could be said as violence in the Bible and to a untrained eye Christianity has a violent base. We are out to destroy all different religions. "An eye for an eye will leave the world blind" .



I call bull on the ex-police chief of Denver. And have heard this from reliable sources that his statement was false. Another way to spread hate and mistrust. Sit down and eat with a man, you can tell his character.



I know there are some radicals among Islam. This is a fact, but to put them ALL in the same light is not only ignorant, but going down the same road as the radical Muslims!

 

[Mike Ellis]

C'mon CF, you know very well the distinction between the teachings of Jesus Christ and the Old Testament law that was delivered to the Jews. Jesus brought an entirely different message, and Christians follow Him and His teachings. Jesus taught us that even Gentiles could come unto God, and His arrival on the scene freed all from the old concepts of rabbinical law that were encoded in the early books of the Bible.



As you have shown, there are verses of violence in the Bible as well as the Koran. But interestingly enough, there is only one brand of religion that APPLIES those messages of violence in mainstream teachings to this very day. There is only one brand of religion that has spawned an enormous popular base of anti-Israel, anti-USA hatred that led to the formation of the terrorists we now oppose. HINT: That religion is not based on the Bible.



You apparently believe that the Christian religious groups pose as big a threat as the Muslim groups. I have posted proof of the Mainstream Muslim teachings of violence in a previous thread, as you well know. If you want us to believe Christians represent the same threat, the burden of proof is on you. So show us!



Show us some radical Christian leaders who advocate the messages of violence in the Old Testament, and terrorist followers who murder innocent people in response to their teachings, and you might have a case that radical Christians present as big a threat as the radical Muslims.



C'mon, CF - show us! Show us...



- Mainstream Christian ministers teaching teenage boys that killing atheists, Jews, or Muslims will get them into heaven and urging them to do so



- Mainstream Christian ministers supporting terrorist rings and funneling money from their eagerly contributing flock to fund same



- A list of nations which have Fundamentalist Christian religious law encoded as the supreme law of the land, forcing all to obey



- A list of nations under such Christian control where publically speaking of other religions can result in imprisonment, torture, or death



C'mon, show us. We're waiting.



And in the meantime, if you CAN'T show us, how about telling us why you refuse to face the truth? Do you believe there is some sort of profit in denial? Does the fact that you have a Muslim friend, or a mosque full of good Muslim neighbors, somehow eliminate the fact that RADICAL MUSLIM TEACHINGS are the source of the terror and horror that the world faces today?

 

[Doc Tinker]

Muslim Holiday Remembered and Honored by USPS

I just got this in my email, from my brother:



-------------



REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of PanAm Flight 103!



REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993!



REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon!



REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military barracks in Saudi Arabia!



REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American Embassies in Africa!



REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE!



REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001!



REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks!



Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the EID MUSLIM holiday season with a commemorative first class holiday postage stamp.



REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT this stamp when purchasing your stamps at the post office. To use this stamp would be a slap in the face to all those AMERICANS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp honors.



REMEMBER to pass this along to every patriotic AMERICAN you know, whether by e-mail or otherwise.





-----------------------------





"We can't make a new beginning but we can make a new ending"

 

[TDRadmin]

Personal Attacks - Warning

I've been reading this thread daily. I've made some edits, but for the most part, I've let it follow its own path.



However, this thread is beginning to feel "personal. " You're welcome to debate/discuss any/all sides of the issue, but stop short of personal attacks/assaults. No one benefits from that.



Thank you for your understanding.



Robin

TDR Admin

 

[lpearson]

Still waiting

Mike Ellis,



good post; you beat me to some of the things I was going to say.



Robin: I have and will be careful-- thanks.



C. F.



My challange was for you to back up what you said (quote) "Christianity in a whole is evil"



As Mike Ellis eluded to, your premise that the Old Testament was Christian is wrong, it's Judasim.



The word Bible comes from a greek word Bibilos, which means "Book of Books". There are 39 books in the O. T. and 27 books or epistles in the N. T. (66 all together).



The word testament means a covenant or contract.

The O. T. (aprox. 4004 B. C. to 397 B. C. {B. C. =before Christ}), was for the Jews only.



The New Testament (N. T. ) or contract is for all people. In basic law if one has a old contract and then comes a new contract the new contract superseeds the conditions of the old.



The O. T. parts which you quoted are of the "Torah" (5 books of Moses of which there are some 613 laws including the 10 commandments. The rest of the O. T. is the "Nebiim" or the Prophets and the "Kethubim" which is the writings.



The O. T. plus the Talmud comprise the religion of the Jews (Judasim), Not Christianity!



Christianity and the Church started about 33 A. D. ( A. D. "Anno Domini" which means in the year of our Lord) and is recorded in the Book of the Acts (N. T. )---- Christian means "Christ ones" (Acts 11:26) The Christian faith is found completely in the New Testament.



If it was possible for anyone to live by the laws, then Jesus the Christ would not have come and Died on the Cross. What he had to say along with the apostles makes up the doctrine and teaching of Christianity.



Summary: Christianity is found in the New Testament, not the O. T. -------- so I guess I'm still waiting for you to prove that Christ's teachings (Christianity) is evil.



Regards,

Lowell

 

[lpearson]

Amazing

Doc Tinker,



Thanks for the information. What can be said?



I for one will not participate, and I think I will let my friends at the local post office see your post.



Regards,

Lowell

 

[lpearson]

The Hadith

C. F.



I thought I would post some other teachings of the Muslim faith just to show what they believe. It is amazing to me that one of the fastest growing religions in the prisions is Islam. Oh, buy the way the ex-Denver police chief is now the appointed Director or all prisions in the State of Colorado (appointed by the govener Bill Owens). I think he is a crediable guy weather you think so or not.

Do you know about the calendars found in Europe of 2001, --- the May picture shows two airliners flying into the Trade centers? There still may be internet sites with the pictures. From my studies there were many warnings to the US from forien intellence agencies. You may not believe that either. Oh well.



If a person joins an orgainzation such as the TDR they are in agreement with what it stands for. A Christian or Jew or Muslim is no different. By the way just to correct you a Sura is not just the violent passages in the Koran; a Sura just means a division of their teaching kind of like chapters in the Bible.



Now for the reason for this post. There is another book in the Muslim faith called the Hadith. It too is reveared as true and inspired by Allah. So anyone who claims to be a Muslim believes in this writing from Muhammad. ----- Here we go



1. Vol. 1, no. 144: Muhammad was afraid that evil spirits might enter his body whenever he urinated or deficated.



2. Vol. 1, no. 162: Muhammad was superstitious about even numbers. He always avoided them. Thus he stipulated that an odd number of stones be use in cleaning oneself after defecation.



3. Vol. 1, no740; Vol 5, no. 199: Muhammad was a Shaman who controlled the Jinn, ie. , evil spirits who lived in the rocks, water and the trees, he said that they ate dung and bones for food.



4. Vol. 4, nos. 830,831,832; vol. 5 nos. 208, 209,210,211 and Vol. 6 nos. 387,388,389,390: When the Meccans asked Muhammad to do a miracle to prove that he was Allah's prophet, he supposedly reached up with his sword and cut the moon in half. Now you know why their symbol is the cressent moon.



5. Vol. 4,no. 779: Food would shout out loud and glorify Allah as Muhammad ate it. The picture of someone calmly eating talking bread and meat is incredible isn't it?



6. Vol. 4, no 283, Vol. 9 no. 50: No Muslim should be killed for KILLING an infidel (that's us).



7. Vol. 4, no. 260: Muhammad said, "if a Muslim discards his religion of Islam, kill him".



8 Vol. 1, no. 234: Muhammad ordered people to drink camel urine mixed in camel milk as a medicine. Yum!!!



9. Vol. 4, no. 573: If a fly falls into your cup, do not worry about it because Muhammad said that "while one wing has the disease, the other has the antidote. " So drink up.



10. Vol 4. no. 539,540: Muhammad said the angels will not enter a house if a dog is there and that Dog lovers would not make good Muslims.



11. Vol 4 chapter 3. page 282: Muhammad said that the stars were created by Allah as missiles to throw at the devils. ---Astronomers should be interested in this teaching.



12. Vol. 2, no. 245: According to Muhammad, Satan urinates into the ears of those who fall asleep during prayers. --- Ear plugs anyone?



13. Vol 2, no. 628; Vol. 9 no. 86: According to Muhammad the prophet , if you commit the sin of passing wind through the anus while you are engaged in prayer, Allah will not hear you prayers. ----Why would Allah be offended by the natural smells of the body?



14. Vol1, p. xxviii: According to Muhammad the prophet of Allah, The souls of the martyrs are in the bodies of green birds dwelling in paradise wherever they like. ----- If this is true, I do not understand how there "green birds" will be able to enjoy those 70 virgins that are there for them because they killed infidels?



Sorry for the long post, I'm going to stop, I'm getting tired and I've got to get going.



Regards,

Lowell

 

[Champane Flight]

Oh?

I kind of get the hint of hate. And as expected you took me out of text, just as you took the Koran out of text. I will bow out of this. Because I feel no matter what I post you will take it out of text or bend it to your needs. The surahs of the second Meccan period are of a violent nature (similar to our bibles old testament).



We as a people better take a long look at ourselves and what it really is that causes us to be hated. I feel we are getting very close to those reasons and they will be seen soon. I think some are still going to hide their heads in the sand. How can we as a people grow, if we continue to let religions take us back to medival times? You may believe that Islam is a evil faith, that is your choice. I believe ANY religion taken to text and interpeted by man can become evil. They tend to become what the person interpeting the text wants it to become. So bend to your needs and have fun, but do not expect me to sit silent.



I was wondering why the prison system in Colorado was so screwed up right now. I guess that is the reason. Good ole Bill made another great decision.

 

[lpearson]

C. F.



I don't hate you at all, in fact the opposite is true.



At least we have one thing in common------ we are TDR members. Oo.







Take care,



Regards,

Lowell

 

[Mike Ellis]

"I kind of get the hint of hate. "



The give and take that has been going on in this message thread gives a hint of hate? Where? I fail to see how logically addressing FACTS promulgates "hate". Unless, of course, you mean the modern definition of "hate", which is anything that somebody disagrees with.



If you want to know "what it is that causes us to be hated", it is quite simple to understand and it ain't Hollywood, Wall Street, Episcopalian prayer meetings, or diesel trucks. The hatred for the United States comes specifically from:



A) Their radical religious leaders telling them it is OK to hate and kill us, and urging them to do so, and



B) United States support for Israel.



Of course, the fact that Hamas, Al Quaida, even Osama himself have repeatedly pointed to (A) and (B) as justifying their attacks on us above mean ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO THE CROWD WHO WANT TO BLAME AMERICA FIRST.

 

[The patriot]

Been lurkin for the past week..

I've been at work, but I've been keeping up on the new posts.

For those of you that think "Thank God he shut up" WRONG!!!

Last week was a 100+ hour week for me. :--) I've been trying to behave on the puter at work, and not post too much. It wasnt easy.

I actually learned a lot by sitting this one out.

Good post Lowell.

I disagree with CF, but that's OK because me and my Christian brothers arent planning on flying a plane into his house just because we dont see things the same.

Eric

 

[illflem]

Seems I recall hundreds of thousands of native New World "heathens" put to death for not accepting Christianity.

And a Spanish Inquisition.

And a never ending Christen battle that includes terrorism going on in Ireland.

So what if some of this was in the past, the mindset is still the same. It's not just Muslims who feel if you don't believe in their way that you're better of dead.



When your talons are sunk in all the way might as well eat the entire carcass. Bush 8:12

 

[Mike Ellis]

Illflem,



If the American Christian right (i. e. , "Flyover country") really thought that people who had different beliefs were better off dead, the East Coast and California would be pretty empty by now. Yet somehow the "live and let live" philosophy still prevails amongst the Christian right, even while we are busily engaged in forcing the innocent radical Muslims to commit terrorist acts against us.



In spite of plentiful anti-Christian rhetoric to the contrary, radical Muslims still lead the modern terrorism hit parade. No matter how much people detest other religious groups, that one stark, simple fact remains. I've seen a lot of arguing that all religious groups are to blame in the terrorism that we are fighting today, but no matter how badly some wish it weren't true that stark, simple fact is still sitting on the table.



This sort of outright refusal to honestly address the issue, not just in these threads but across the nation wherever people gather, can't bode well for our nation's security in the long term. Maybe not in the short term, either.

 

[Champane Flight]

Also

The hatred for us comes by the radical Islamic factions comes from many sources. As said, our allies with Israel, our presence in the middle east, and our foreign policy in which we are always sticking our noses where they don't belong. I do realize that we have the best of wishes most of the time, however we also have our own best interests or money in mind some of the time.



I am thinking we should pull up stakes throughout the world and let it happen. Wait for the world to come and ask for help. In the meantime stregthen our borders. Deal with any terror on American soil by radical Islamic factions with a bath in pigs blood and a firing squad! Deal with any country that attacks us with extreme predjudice! No UN, NO waiting!



The facts are there, when our administration was told this by a middle eastern leader they turned their backs on him. Instead we are about to estrange the rest of the middle east by taking over the first of many countries we will have to take. And each will have a urgency to it, maybe a resolution, WMD, or evil dictator/regime to take care of. So where does it stop? When we become real Christians and practice the faith?

 

[Doc Tinker]

13. Vol 2, no. 628; Vol. 9 no. 86: According to Muhammad the prophet , if you commit the sin of passing wind through the anus while you are engaged in prayer, Allah will not hear you prayers. ----Why would Allah be offended by the natural smells of the body?

If you've ever seen pictures of Muslims bowing in prayer, this proverb makes sense. I'm sure the guy bowing in the next row would take offence and wish/pray bad things upon you, which would cancel your prayer.



Doc

 

[Hammerhead]

Re: Also

[



I am thinking we should pull up stakes throughout the world and let it happen. Wait for the world to come and ask for help. In the meantime stregthen our borders. Deal with any terror on American soil by radical Islamic factions with a bath in pigs blood and a firing squad! Deal with any country that attacks us with extreme predjudice! No UN, NO waiting!



Het CF, Now your talkin' logically. I could actually agree with that statement . The only problem is, This didn't work in WWII and I really doubt that it would work now.

 

[lpearson]

Hope this doesn't cause problems, it's not my intent.

Illflem:



Not to start anything because I've enjoyed reading your posts and admire your knowledge and insights,---------- but 100,000's (if that's the number) of Natives I recall were butchered for their Lands that we now live on, not for refusing to become a Christian.



The Spanish Inquisition,- was about papists who murdered some 68,000,000 Christians for having Bibles, singing Christian hymns and not joining the Roman Church. The Pope 2 years ago apoligized for this.



The Ireland issue is about the Roman Church and it's desire to dominate.



When I've ask members of the Roman Church if they are Christians, without fail they say "no", I'm Roman Catholic.



I have friends who are Roman Catholic, so I'm not trying to bash them. I'm just pointing out that the Roman doctrine is different than that in the Bible. Priests will tell you if their Church disagrees with the Bible, that they should believe and follow Roman Church doctrines. With that being said, I'm not saying that there aren't some Christians in the Roman Catholic system because I know that there are.



I know of no Bible believeing persons or groups,-- EVER-- to have started wars, or killed anyone for not becoming a Christian. The Christian doctrine in the Bible is just the opposite.



As I stated in past replies, there are those who use the name of Christianity to do dastardly deeds, but with a little research and discernment many times it is easy to tell who they are and why they are doing what they are doing.



Religion has been used by many despots throughout the centuries as a way of movitivating the masses. They knew that if you can get to a persons beliefs you can get them to do just about anything. I believe this is true today with Islam and also somewhat true with the Roman system but not to the degree that it was during the dark ages. Actually, it is true too with Christianity except for the evil of killing others for not believeing. Christian teaching and doctrine found in the N. T. state that we should help and pray for others not harm them.



Regards,

Lowell