Isn't this is slight problem?

[skobylenski]

Yeah, yeah, I know, this has been brought up a million times already around here, but this morning was the first time I've actually read anything about the new Super-Duper-Can't-Get-Much-More-Sulfer-Out-Of-The-Fuel, Ultra-Low-Sulfur-Diesel, but I think that dropping from 3400 to 500 PPM is going to be a slight problem.



"The new rule requires oil refiners to reduce sulfur in diesel fuel for non-road vehicles from 3,400 parts per million currently to 500 parts per million in 2007. It would drop to 15 parts per million in 2010. "



Here's the rest of the article

 

[mcoleman]

Better start stocking up on fuel additives. I would burn bio if they would just get it in my area. It has excellent lube qualities.

 

[skobylenski]

I've often thought about bio, and now that I'm starting to realize actually what's happening, I think I'll be contemplating it a lot more now My only problem is that the closest bio retailer in my area is too far away to make it worth the drive (join the club, right?). Maybe I'll look into making my own...

 

[RustyJC]

Sulfur in and of itself adds no lubricating qualities to diesel fuel. The problem is that the additional refining processes required to remove the sulfur also reduce the inherent lubricity of the diesel fuel. The refiners recognize this and add lubricity additives to the fuel to compensate. It's not worth losing sleep over, and the lower sulfur diesel will allow the engine manufacturers to achieve lower particulate (soot) emissions and to use aftertreatment to meet emissions regulations.



The reduced sulfur guidelines just released apply to off-road diesels and don't affect us. On-road diesels are already looking at more stringent 2007 emissions regulations that will require low-sulfur diesel fuel.



FYI, the engine manufacturers are the ones that have been pushing for the lower sulfur diesel fuel.



Rusty

 

[mcoleman]

And the result of the low sulfur fuel will be higher costs at the pump than we are already seeing due to the extra refinement costs. And 15 years down the road they will decide that the sulfur wasn't causing any issues to begin with just like they have now started saying that freon isn't as bad as they initially thought. I'm still hoping for the bio-diesel to get worked out and become more readily available myself. I maybe proved wrong in the future but right now I'm betting the 07 diesel fuel will be priced higher than premium gasoline.

 

[RustyJC]

Originally posted by mcoleman

And the result of the low sulfur fuel will be higher costs at the pump than we are already seeing due to the extra refining costs.

Mmmm... . yep, probably so.

And 15 years down the road they will decide that the sulfur wasn't causing any issues to begin with just like they have now started saying that freon isn't as bad as they initially thought.

Actually, the sulfur produces sulfur dioxide, is the "root" upon which soot particles form and poisons aftertreatment catalysts.

I'm still hoping for the bio-diesel to get worked out and become more readily available myself. I maybe proved wrong in the future but right now I'm betting the 07 diesel fuel will be priced higher than premium gasoline.

Yep, like it or not, the times they are a'changing!



Rusty

 

[Andy Perreault]

Originally posted by mcoleman

Better start stocking up on fuel additives. I would burn bio if they would just get it in my area. It has excellent lube qualities.

The way prices are going, it won't be long before biodiesel is cost-effective (it's over $3 a gallon here in WA).

Andy

 

[BV]

Originally posted by mcoleman

I'm betting the 07 diesel fuel will be priced higher than premium gasoline.

It's almost there is a few spots - Unleaded = 2. 11 / Med. = 2. 17 / Prem = 2. 27 / Diesel = 2. 21

 

[DGFoster]

Originally posted by skobylenski

Yeah, yeah, I know, this has been brought up a million times already around here, but this morning was the first time I've actually read anything about the new Super-Duper-Can't-Get-Much-More-Sulfer-Out-Of-The-Fuel, Ultra-Low-Sulfur-Diesel, but I think that dropping from 3400 to 500 PPM is going to be a slight problem.



"The new rule requires oil refiners to reduce sulfur in diesel fuel for non-road vehicles from 3,400 parts per million currently to 500 parts per million in 2007. It would drop to 15 parts per million in 2010. "



Here's the rest of the article

This will be another excuse to raise diesel prices to new highs

 

[Chipstien]

Originally posted by Andy Perreault

The way prices are going, it won't be long before biodiesel is cost-effective (it's over $3 a gallon here in WA).

Andy

Where in WA is bio-diesel available?

 

[JohnE]

Kinda repeating some of Rusty's post;



Most have been running low sulfur fuel for many years. The on-road started first and off-road was phased in later. Mining timber and marine are still running standard fuel but those have reduced greatly to mostly mining and marine. The initial results were devastating until they realized the sulfur reduction process removed the natural lubricating properties of diesel fuel.



If you're referring to ULTRA low sulfur fuel or the next emission step getting phased in across NA, then results are more upbeat. The lubricity issue was addressed before the fuel went into usage. Many on-road diesel are running ULSF (ultra low sulfur fuel) in combination with the latest generation of PM (particulate matter) scrubbers in 2. 5 g/l (gram per liter) NOx emission engines well in advance of the 2007 deadline.



Yeah the engine manufacturer that first signed the early emission mandate is paying the most in late penalty fees, Cummins.



It appears Cat has everyone beat with a NON EGR system that meets the 2. 5 g/l NOx.

 

[Spooled-up]

I talked with a guy about Soydiesel. He was saying that it would put tons of farmers back to work, reduce our dependence on foreign oil, and it is great fuel. Anyone know anything about Soydiesel?

 

[nickleinonen]

i can get b20 biodiesel down the road from me, but i can't swallow the $0. 10 per liter price increase. $0. 769/liter last i looked, and 125 liters that i usually fill, no good. now if it'll get me 1,000 km on a tank, then i might bite, but i get 800+ on a tank now...

 

[Ramtough]

Regarding the "freon is not the problem they thought it was" quote - someone recently told me that the space shuttle intentionally dumps 2,500# of freon along the tiles during reentry to cool them. Does anyone know whether or not there is any truth to this? According to my precise calculations 2,500# = 3,325 oz cans of R-12.

 

[JohnE]

Originally posted by Ramtough

Regarding the "freon is not the problem they thought it was" quote - someone recently told me that the space shuttle intentionally dumps 2,500# of freon along the tiles during reentry to cool them. Does anyone know whether or not there is any truth to this? According to my precise calculations 2,500# = 3,325 oz cans of R-12.

Never heard that one. Possible they use freon to clean the tiles on ground.



Municiple water systems release more chlorine radicals into the air than freon or ? combined.



Biodiesel is very promising from the natural emission reduction and the enhanced lubricity issue. As far as putting farmers to work??? Why does tax dollars go to subsidize tobacco farmers AND sponsor anti tobacco programs as well as lawyers pockets? Producing farmers will profit, the others complain the subsidy isn't enough.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

For those with the "pie-in-the-sky" attitude, and expectations on diesel fuels past and present, here's a good read from a Sacramento fuel seminar chaired by the Bosch bunch, focusing on lubricity in current fuels - the seminar was held on '02...



http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/meeting/2003/022003bosch.pdf



If *80%* of stations sampled in '02 FAILED the Bosch specs for their pumps, do any here REALLY think a miracle will occur with the new stuff, still being refined at the same refineries, transported in the same tankers, delivered to the same customersby the same stations using the same storage tanks, lines and pumps... ?



Dream on!



The MAIN thing that will change for the buyer, is the $$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Pawpaw]

Originally posted by JohnE

Why does tax dollars go to subsidize tobacco farmers AND sponsor anti tobacco programs as well as lawyers pockets?

This makes perfect sense when you realize that virtually all of our polititions are lawyers. They have a pretty nice racket going and the rest of us get to foot the bill.



There's a fox-and-henhouse joke in there somewhere.