It wont start unless I jump it

[dpuckett]

Mom's 92 recently had a bad ground (the little one in front of the battery that has a screw through it) burn out the starter relay, and took some wiring with it. Replaced the relay, redid the applicable wiring, moved the ground to a more secure location; worked fine for a week or two. The other day, it wouldnt start. I looked at it tonight, and the ground appeared good, but noticed the positive cable was loose at the battery. Tightened it up, figuring it is normally somethign simple, why would this time be any different? (Answer- Murphy and his danged law). Turned out to be the starter relay. At least when I jumped it with a wrench from the hot cable to the little stud/ nut on the solenoid, it started. Shut it off, key still on, hooked the test light in the little wire (brown, I think it is- runs along side the positive cable to the starter, where it branches off), and turned the key. Relay clicked, kinda, and no juice to the wire. Jumped the wire again, only this time it was the wire itself to the hot battery terminal, and it fired right over. Now I have figured out an emergency way to get it going if I need it in the future. However, I dont want to have to pop the hood every time to start the SOB. I was thinking (yup, that accounts for the smoke ) that if I just got a standard automotive relay for $5 vs $20 from DC, and rewired it to fit the new relay, this time with a wire crimper, solder (which I used this time round anyway) and the whole 10 yards, would that work, provided I got a relay of the same aperage rating? And what is the amp rating of the starter realy on a 92? There are 4 wires going to the realy, and 5 terminals on the relay, with an 87 and an 87A. ANy help or ideas would be greatly appreciated. Electrical stuff stumps me nearly every time, if it is beyond a loose connection or something blaringly obvious.



Daniel

 

[TKingsbury]

The relay you describe sounds like a Bosch type relay. Here's a rundown on the pins; 85&86 are the on/off for the relay. One of them comes from the ign switch and the other goes to ground. These are what turn the relay on and off. Pin # 30 is constant power. Pin #87a is normally closed, meaning any wire hooked to it will be hot when the relay is NOT activated (some relays don't have this pin). Pin #87 is normally open, this is used most often. It has power only when the relay IS activated. You should be able to buy a quality relay at any good parts house. If you remove your relay, it should have an amp rating on it. Most of the ones I've seen are in the 30 amp range. Hope this helps.

Travis. .

 

[CGauthier]

Daniel-I'm going to look into it further, but I'm 99. 67668% positive that a relay is a relay. There's nothing special about a relay, all it is is a switch that turns on a circuit that can handle the higher current needed, because I wouldn't wanna see what the wires would look like if you hooked the starter straight to those little ignition wires I say if you can get the same or greater amperage rating somewhere else go for it. But, as i said I'm gonna check into it tomorrow ( I got connections ya no) just to be sure. Probably alot of these kinds of parts we could get away with alot less $$ by not going to the dealer... I know I was thinking about that when I bought the vss if there was such a thing as non-oem. For a simple thing like a relay the dealer would probably charge a finger and a toe plus the shirt off your back lol.



Carl G

 

[1stgen4evr]

relay

Daniel if you are talking about the little black cube on the driver side above the splash guard, just change it. They are pretty long lifed but do wear out. I have changed one on the 92 and it works fine. The problem seemed to be in the contact that energized the relay. I could use a small jumper wire at the relay and get it to close and energize the starter solonoid. As you mentioned, that requires "under the hood".



You can of course go the substitute route but will have to do the hook up. If you wanted to do it, you could put and old style starter button on the dash and have a system that you know the circuit. The replacement relay would not need to be as heavy as, for instance, the relay that Ford uses to energize the starter. Echlin probably has something that will do the job.



James

 

[bgilbert]

How bout paying the $12-15 for the relay from Napa and be done with it? My 89's relay just went bad recently and I immediately pulled the starter to inspect and rebuild, only to find out, I just rebuilt it, sorta, last winter duh got too many trucks around here. Swapped relays in the 91 and found the relay to be bad, $13 for a new one from Napa and I'm in business.

 

[MrWinkey]

I had the same issue with mine but it had some BBQ'ed harness. I just rewired the starter to a push button in the ashtray for now. I'm trying to finish my KDP fix and change the coolant and finish putting the floor back in before I worry about that relay or key switch.

 

[dpuckett]

Bill, the relay in my 91 (and your 89, I'd think) is different from the one in Mom's 92 (I have the 1990 engine).



This thing just got replaced two weeks ago; it shouldnt be bad, unless it was a defective unit; in which case I'd think it wouldnt have wroked from the beginning. I know there is no juice coming out of it when I hit the key. Leads me to believe either a bad ignition switch, or a loose wire somewhere that needs redone. Mom called a shop this morning, and they said to check the voltage coming from the ignition switch, and then going somewhere else- I forget where. I'll try to get to it this weekend. I showed her how to start it this morning in case the Chevy craps out.



THanks for the ideas, guys.



Daniel

 

[TKingsbury]

If you can jump power from the #30 hot to 85 or 86 (whichever comes from the switch) and it starts, that tells you the ground side is ok. The problem would be in the ign switch or wiring. See if you get roughly the same voltage at the terminal on the ign switch and at the other end of the wire where it connects to the relay.

Travis. .

 

[dpuckett]

Thanks, Travis. ANy idea which wire coming form the ign switch I should connect to? I'm getting tired of popping the hood to start it, though that seems to work fine. GOTTA get my truck back together.....



-DP

 

[TKingsbury]

If you are currently jumping the constant hot to one of the trigger terminals, look at the color of the wire on the terminal you are jumping to. That should be the wire from the ign switch. The other trigger wire should go to ground, so if you jumped it to that one, you would get sparks. I will try to look at my truck later and see exactly what we are looking at.

Travis. .

 

[TKingsbury]

Ok, I went out and looked at my truck. My truck has a relay that looks like an old horn relay. Silver/cad plated looking thing on the drivers fender on the vertical between the hood and inner fender. Mine has four terminals, only marked 1,2,3 and 4 . If you want to change relay type/style, all you need to do is figure out which wires do what. One wire should be constant hot, One should go to the starter solenoid, one wire should be hot when you turn the ign switch to "start", and one wire should have continuity to ground. My truck has a red wire as constant hot, solid brown wires to starter, solid yellow from the ign switch and small brown w/yellow tracer is the ground. If you want to use a Bosch relay, hook the red to #30, the brown solenoid wire to 87, and the other two can go on the #85 and #86 teminals (doesn't matter which). It should fire up with the key. Before you change anything, make sure the yellow wire has power when you turn the key to "start".

Travis. .