I've got some "land for you......." if you believe the oil companies...

[jarsong]

Re: More complicated than that

Originally posted by Jeremiah

This is an interesting thread but it isn't going anywhere interesting. It would behoove you guys to study history and economics because we ain't taking nothing back from nobody.



Keep in mind that Saudi Arabia isn't our country, although we and the British helped make it a country. We also left tribal chieftains in control who are multi-millionaires today. The only way these guys will fall is from within, and then what happens?



Saddam Hussein all over again?



The oil isn't ours either - it's theirs - and while it's true we did the drilling and made money, the royalties are theirs too and they, knowing our need for oil, formed OPEC with their neighbors to protect their respective interests.



Kinda the reverse of what we did to the Indians in the 1800s, only the Indians didn't know how to form an OPEC-like conglomerate to protect their interests.



But they know now and are using casinos to stick it back to the white man who took their land away from them. I digress ...



Price controls on oil aren't the answer either because it's the market that prevails. Tinker with the market through price controls or tariffs and weird things happen - not good!



The answer is simple: reducing the demand over here reduces the price over there. That's why alternative fuels is the answer. American ingenuity will win out every time, guaranteed!



Check it out, lads!

Yes ole wise one... . Were about ready to stick it to the Indian casino's here in Washington next November. Legalized gambling. And just in case you don't know, Price controls on oil is exactly what you are getting today. Other nations and groups should never underestimate the power of the USA to make sure our energy needs are met. It would be a hard lesson for anyone who tries to cut us out, don't care who's oil it is. Just a fact.

jarsong

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Re: More complicated than that

Originally posted by jarsong

Yes ole wise one... . Were about ready to stick it to the Indian casino's here in Washington next November. Legalized gambling. And just in case you don't know, Price controls on oil is exactly what you are getting today. Other nations and groups should never underestimate the power of the USA to make sure our energy needs are met. It would be a hard lesson for anyone who tries to cut us out, don't care who's oil it is. Just a fact.

jarsong

It's truly complex. Many wealthy families (Rockefeller, Kennedy, Bush, Mellon, etc. ) and companies have relationships with families and companies in other countries going back generations - sometimes to the 1800s.



It's inevitable that these families would pressure governments for favorable treatment, and the problem becomes even more complex when the families rise to political power themselves.



Money tends to take care of money regardless of where it's located. Our job as voters is to make sure the light of day keeps shining - not an easy task when the press "covers" for the party or family that shares their own political views.

 

[PaulG]

I see it this way i think it's getting out of control price wise i don't think $2. 00 a gallon is cheap we all know this $3 will be worse but on the other hand knowing this and who's really watching is all the Auto makers.

For one if gas gets to high and less people are driving as far and much and that means cars last longer, which means people buy less, which means they make less, then car prices go up and people can't buy right? Snow ball effect correct?

Okay then car manufactures will now start thinking of other ways to propel their cars/trucks, alternitive fuels we'll see alot more battery/gas cars and it won't be long before trucks will be on the same path. If we can go to the moon we can find a way to use other means to make cars/trucks move right?



The technoligy we have and discovering comes faster and faster now adays, if we can apply it in the right areas we can make sure that oil companies get hurt down the road. Unfortunatly most of us won't see to much of this.

 

[Blakers]

They're already working on a diesel-electric Dodge Ram. I think it's a great idea! Motors in the axles. No transmission as a weak point. No differential. No gear ratios to worry about. They'll have batteries for electric storage and hopefully dynamic braking that will charge the batteries on downhills. Lots of potential here, including being able to run in "stealth" mode with the engine off when we want to be quiet.



BTW, if you want to learn more about the history of the oil industry in the years after the early Pennsylvania and West Virginia oil fields, get a book called "The Prize. " It's also on video, but hard to find.



There are better sources for the early history in Pa and WV available.



Blake

 

[Jeremiah]

Some truth to that

Originally posted by PaulG

I see it this way i think it's getting out of control price wise i don't think $2. 00 a gallon is cheap we all know this $3 will be worse but on the other hand knowing this and who's really watching is all the Auto makers.

For one if gas gets to high and less people are driving as far and much and that means cars last longer, which means people buy less, which means they make less, then car prices go up and people can't buy right? Snow ball effect correct?

Okay then car manufactures will now start thinking of other ways to propel their cars/trucks, alternitive fuels we'll see alot more battery/gas cars and it won't be long before trucks will be on the same path. If we can go to the moon we can find a way to use other means to make cars/trucks move right?



The technoligy we have and discovering comes faster and faster now adays, if we can apply it in the right areas we can make sure that oil companies get hurt down the road. Unfortunatly most of us won't see to much of this.

Just a minor change (different location for the cigarette lighter, for instance) costs an automaker hundreds of thousands of dollars to retool. That's why manufacturers won't make drastic changes unless they have to.



Remember when huge cars in the 50s and 60s got 10 or 15 mpgs? Detroit didn't care because they had a captive market. Then along came the Germans who recognized that Americans wanted smaller cars that burned less fuel. They gave us the Volkswagens. And the Japanese followed with Hondas, etc.



For awhile Detroit tried to play catch-up, only they couldn't adapt fast enough. So American manufacturers decided - screw it - we'll join 'em. They went in business with foreign manufacturers.



Detroit will give us what we want if enough of us want it. But they will also buy out competition and innovative technologies to keep from spending money themselves. It's a cruel world out there.

 

[PaulG]

Re: Some truth to that

Originally posted by Jeremiah

Just a minor change (different location for the cigarette lighter, for instance) costs an automaker hundreds of thousands of dollars to retool. That's why manufacturers won't make drastic changes unless they have to.



Remember when huge cars in the 50s and 60s got 10 or 15 mpgs? Detroit didn't care because they had a captive market. Then along came the Germans who recognized that Americans wanted smaller cars that burned less fuel. They gave us the Volkswagens. And the Japanese followed with Hondas, etc.



For awhile Detroit tried to play catch-up, only they couldn't adapt fast enough. So American manufacturers decided - screw it - we'll join 'em. They went in business with foreign manufacturers.



Detroit will give us what we want if enough of us want it. But they will also buy out competition and innovative technologies to keep from spending money themselves. It's a cruel world out there.

i disagree just cause if we can't afford to run the gas in the cars/trucks we won't buy new ones. sure back in the old days fuel milage was an issue not cost when cost is the bigger factor here not how many MPG we're getting. I don't think anyone here is complaining about milage just cost per gallons.

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Re: Some truth to that

Originally posted by PaulG

i disagree just cause if we can't afford to run the gas in the cars/trucks we won't buy new ones. sure back in the old days fuel milage was an issue not cost when cost is the bigger factor here not how many MPG we're getting. I don't think anyone here is complaining about milage just cost per gallons.

You're going the wrong way. Cost per gallon becomes less a concern the more miles per gallon you get. Compared to other countries, Americans have been getting a free ride on fuel. That's why cars in those countries are small and get better mileage.



The more people in our country who feel as you do, the sooner we will have smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient cars and trucks.



Now if you really want prices to go down, talk to your legislator about lowering fuel taxes. Good luck on this but don't hold your breath. The government needs money too, right?

 

[jarsong]

Re: Re: Re: Some truth to that

Originally posted by Jeremiah

You're going the wrong way. Cost per gallon becomes less a concern the more miles per gallon you get. Compared to other countries, Americans have been getting a free ride on fuel. That's why cars in those countries are small and get better mileage.



The more people in our country who feel as you do, the sooner we will have smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient cars and trucks.



Now if you really want prices to go down, talk to your legislator about lowering fuel taxes. Good luck on this but don't hold your breath. The government needs money too, right?

Good point. My commuter car gets 40+MPG. $2. 00 gal gas to me means nothing. I drive my Ram Diesel about 6-8K year average, so still not a biggie. However someone I know fuel bill went from $2500 month to $4500 month in just a few short years. Yes that's MONTH... He is feeling it and so are the folks buying his product, which is you and me.....

jarsong

 

[Jeremiah]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Some truth to that

Originally posted by jarsong

Good point. My commuter car gets 40+MPG. $2. 00 gal gas to me means nothing. I drive my Ram Diesel about 6-8K year average, so still not a biggie. However someone I know fuel bill went from $2500 month to $4500 month in just a few short years. Yes that's MONTH... He is feeling it and so are the folks buying his product, which is you and me.....

jarsong

Yep, commercial drivers feel it the most, not to mention the carriers (airlines, etc. ). It takes time for them to adjust the prices of their products (whatever is being transported - people, goods, materials, cost of transportation, etc. ) to reflect the higher fuel cost, and some of 'em will go out of business.



None of this is good for the economy and you can bet that whatever administration is in office at the time isn't trying to profit on it. They don't want price increases to drive this country into a recession. But they know better than to fool around with the market. They just hope they can prod a bit here and there and make a difference.



Does that mean that individual companies won't try to make a profit on whatever is going on? Absolutely, they will! They'd be crazy not to. It's what makes the world go around.