Jeep Grand Cherokee + Cummins (3.9L) ISBe + Allison 1000-Series = :)

[HoleshotHolset]

Skyjacker is pretty well known - I may have to look into that. I don't care about articulation so I can cut some corners...



Heck - the Jeep won't even be 4x4 for a while (there's not much room at all for a front driveshaft... ) - so that makes it even more of a bummer that I have to lift it just to fit the engine. haha Such is life. I got myself into this mess and I'm gonna get out somehow.



I looked at the hydraulic steering - the kits are expensive, but the hydraulic cylinders by themselves aren't bad at all. We don't have any vehicle emissions or safety inspections in my part of the state. Whatever I do must be compatible with on-highway use, though. Again - this is an area I'm not familiar with... I want to do it right and do it safely.



Thanks,



Matt

 

[ilovetrains]

Here - I think lift is your friend. With the right amount you can not only fit the 4bt and Ally but also move it far enough forward to get a t-case to fit.

 

[rbattelle]

Holy cow, I just found this (on a totally unrelated search). What an awesome conversion, Matt!



-Ryan

 

[Brayden]

Matt, if you use a 4BT 90 chevy bellhousing then you can run the 4L80E. That SAE #3 housing is going to be a bear to fit in that tiny tunnel. Then once you do, where is the downpipe going, through the hood ?



My S10 is extremely close with a #3 housing. I don't know how you're going to do it. Yet mine firewall is stock, you have talked about cutting .

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Here - I think lift is your friend. With the right amount you can not only fit the 4bt and Ally but also move it far enough forward to get a t-case to fit.

I hear ya. I'm still going to research the airbag route... that will allow me to customize the ride height and ride quality. It won't be plug-n-play, though. 4" lifts with control arms aren't cheap... I've yet to find a used market for lifts. The research continues...

Holy cow, I just found this (on a totally unrelated search). What an awesome conversion, Matt!

Thanks, Ryan. This project isn't anywhere near as frustrating as your water heater debacle. :-laf I've just got a complete lack of time to work on it... everything's getting in the way these days.



Brayden: My engine has a rear mounted gearcase with a built-in SAE #3 bellhousing that mates right up to the Allison. I'll cut the Jeep to bits - no worries there.



Matt

 

[HoleshotHolset]

In between mowing acres of grass, a dairy breakfast ( ) and making my '94 run, I got in some time this weekend on the Jeep.



The dash wasn’t all that bad to take out – it just required patience and a few hours. Overall, I’m quite impressed with the build quality of this Jeep – they took a LOT of measures to keep it quiet/rattle-free and make the fit-n-finish reasonably nice. (…and in one fell swoop I’ve basically just eliminated a lot of Chrysler’s hard work! :-laf )



I put a red square in the picture around the only remaining bit of the entire HVAC assembly. This was the last piece that was holding that thing in the vehicle. I finally got ticked off and ripped it out – I won’t be able to reuse the OEM HVAC since I’ll be doing some cutting on that firewall to make room for the Cummins/Allison. I might have to run one of those aftermarket hot-rod HVAC units or modify the crap out of the OEM assembly.



Other than that little piece getting ripped off and cutting one of the A/C evaporator core lines with tin snips – I didn’t have to get too medieval with this portion of the project…yet. The heater core is in PERFECT shape - I've yet to see a vehicle with this kind of mileage where the core is not all rotted out.



Matt

 

[RMeskimen]

"Brayden: My engine has a rear mounted gearcase with a built-in SAE #3 bellhousing that mates right up to the Allison. "



I am confused about the ISB 170.



As I understood, the older mechanically injected 4bt's where basically a 6bt with two less cylinders, so in a perfect world, you could actually pull the motor from a 96 Ram 2500 (12V 6bt) and bolt the adapter plate to the 4bt and re-install with the appropriate mods for hose length and various wiring mods.



Is the ISB 170 a completely different motor? My assumption prior to the above statement was that the diffference betwen the 4bt 8 valve and the ISB 170 was similar to the 12V to 24V 6bt except that the ISB 170 has common rail injection. Is it not possible to bolt on the adapter plate from a 12V 6bt to an ISB 170?



It these questions are way out in left field please let me know. I appreciate the guidance. Thanks.

 

[RMeskimen]

Ok... so after some research, I need to ask a another clarifying question. Matt, did you mean that the spacer that normally attaches to the bellhousing on 6bt's is actually cast on the ISB 170 block and mates to an SAE #3 bellhousing?



Thanks.



Ryan

 

[RMeskimen]

Sorry guys... nevermind. I figured it out. The ISB 170 comes with an SAE#3 face on the rear. I found some great pics on the Pirate board that cleared it up. Now... how to fit that to a Dodge Auto...

 

[DKarvwnaris]

Sorry guys... nevermind. I figured it out. The ISB 170 comes with an SAE#3 face on the rear. I found some great pics on the Pirate board that cleared it up. Now... how to fit that to a Dodge Auto...

Dig up parts from a 6bt and install a front gear train onto the engine. drop the CAT 2 adapter off the back and mount a Cummins to Chrysler bellhousing adapter to it. The blocks are indentical from what I remember, the difference is in the accessory mounts etc.

Go to a cummins shop and ask the parts guy to show you the recon engine books for better clarification. The recon shortblocks will list which applications and which gear train (front or back) each block will option out with.

 

[SShan]

Hi HoleshotHolset



I am the guy in Brookfield Wisconsin with the Land Rover defender 110.

I talked with Cummins and the Vendor they recommended about modifying the sump for clearance.



Cummins told me that the ISB 170 is 814. 2 mm high, works out to about 32 inches. Weight 750lbs.

About the sump; the technical guy at Cummins recommended 2 places for me to contact



a) Enterprise Engine in Ohio 740-246-6329

b) Diesel Performance in Washington 509-546-9997



I talked to the guy in Washington and the chap there was very helpfull with advice. Very nice guy, wish I had asked his name. They don't do Cummins repower anymore, now its race apps for them.

He said that they can take up to 3 inches off the oil pan to reduce height which they have done for race apps. One can also go for dry-sump with remote resevoir but he said thats expensive. I asked about the durability/reliability about Dry-Sumping and he mentioned that the new Corvettes have dry sump.



As far an Auto Transmission goes, he mentioned the Allison 1000 or to get the Auto Trans & Transfer case from a Dodge Cummins pick-up.



I asked him if I was crazy to stick an ISB 170 into my Land Rover because torque would almost double from stock. The guy kinda agreed it would be unwise unless I beefed-up/replaced the driveline & Trans. He said my stock steel frame should be fine. My rear end is supposed to be Land Rover's version of a Dana 60 . I am going find Land Rover's version of a Dana 60 front end when I go to England in a weeks time.



Some more encouraging news I found recently, was that the AMG G55 mercedes has 520 ft/lbs torque. I think the G is in the same size category as the Defender and Jeep Grand Cherokee. I am going to find out the specs on the Merc axles and Trans+Transfer case.



I am following your modification closely, it would help me greatly with my defender.



PS The Grand cherokee in Europe has a diesel that delives 224 hp & 376 ft/lbs. Its a v6 Merc diesel. I am gona try and check the specs and ask questions about it when I am in England.

 

[RMeskimen]

Dig up parts from a 6bt and install a front gear train onto the engine. drop the CAT 2 adapter off the back and mount a Cummins to Chrysler bellhousing adapter to it. The blocks are indentical from what I remember, the difference is in the accessory mounts etc.

Go to a cummins shop and ask the parts guy to show you the recon engine books for better clarification. The recon shortblocks will list which applications and which gear train (front or back) each block will option out with.

Very nice. Since I am new to this engine and to a certain extent new to diesels (I know quite a bit about the 24V 6bt but that is about it) can you tell me what is contained in the gear case and what it does? Thanks.

 

[TurboTweaker]

the gear case turns the cam and Injection pump and so on



The Fat Kid

Andy

 

[Nate]

You don't need that much lift! I have 7" of lift on my ZJ and I run 36" Swampers without any problems.



#ad

Clock it and with about 8 inches lift, it would work. We just lifted a ZJ 5. 5 (the RE kit, so more like 6. 5-7 inches actual lift) and it will still only clear 33's, and maybe have to do some trimming. I could see a custom long arm kit, 12 inches and 35's. With the long arms you would retain a very good ride, but the COG would be awful high.



QUOTE]

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I started cutting the firewall last night to make room for the engine to move back in the bay so the oil pan sump can clear the front differential. There's a 10" x 18" hole in the firewall / transmission tunnel.



I'll snag some pictures tonight if I get a chance. The whole project is starting to become a reality, but man this thing is going to be a Frankenstein. :-laf The engine just might clear the hood without needing any modification... stay tuned.



I have to modify my engine leveler or make a new one. Since the engine's valve cover will end up under the cowl area, the leveler is hitting the cowl lip before the engine can go all the way back. This setback is going to slow me down a bit while I re-engineer the lift/leveler.



If I were using a 4BT with a front gearcase, life would be a lot easier. I'm having a lot of fun reinventing the wheel, though.



Matt

 

[DKarvwnaris]

If I were using a 4BT with a front gearcase, life would be a lot easier. I'm having a lot of fun reinventing the wheel, though.



Matt

If you're trying to make the wheel square, I think you are winning



Hopefully you are going to tear down the rear train before you install the engine permanently and check for any issues. Having to service a rear gear train engine will be beyond a pain in the neck if its stuffed into the Heep's firewall section

I applause your for your determination, if anything you're learning a whole lot of what works and what doesn't.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Project Canyonero continues...

"She's a squirrel squashin', deer smackin' drivin' machine... "



I'm installing the engine as-is after I make sure everything is up to snuff. Yanking the engine won't be that big of a deal if manure hits the fan. I'm not welding up all of the stuff I cut out of the firewall... I'll be fabbing a removable access panel so that I can get at the bellhousing bolts, etc. When I put carpet back back into it someday - that'll also be easily removable.



Here are some pics showing the slightly modified firewall, etc. So far, so good. The bolts in Frakenstein's neck are taking shape.



Matt

 

[therabbittree]

looks good any updates. . i may be thinking of a similar swap but a 6 cy in a '99 police package 2wd tahoe. . good or bad idea?

later

Deo

 

[DKarvwnaris]

looks good any updates. . i may be thinking of a similar swap but a 6 cy in a '99 police package 2wd tahoe. . good or bad idea?

later

Deo

Tahoe's are cake walks, there are numerous 6bt repowers around using these rigs. Getting an auto to work with the 6bt and the GM electronics is the only hurdle. If you recycle the GM transmission into beverage cans, you'll be better off with a 46rh transmission with manual solenoid controllers. Bolt in application and plenty of places on TDR who know how to build them for any power level you want.

2wd tahoes are very open to different drivelines, its one of the better bare canvas projects to go with. Very economical to repower as well, since there is fewer parts to modify over a 4wd.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I haven't been out in the garage working on the Jeep in ~3 weeks now. I hope to be able to get out there this weekend...



Matt