Job Happiness and Union vs Non-Union

[Doc Tinker]

WCrovo's thread "Who hates their JOB" prompted this poll.



I thought it might be interesting to see if job happiness has anything to do with whether we're in a Union or non-Union job.



What job situation are you in and are you happy with your job?



1. Union and happy

2. Union and unhappy

3. Non-Union and happy

4. Non-Union and unhappy

 

[illflem]

Darn I clicked the wrong box. I am union and happy. The Montana State Employees union is so unobtrusive I forgot I even belong, only pay $7 a month. They bargained a 6% per year wage hike for the next 4 years, that makes me even happier.

 

[MLee]

union and retirement

I think that the TDR is a very good group of people, everyone gets along good. but strange that this kind of subject comes up. I know that not every one agrees on what is best or suitable, thats why were intitleled to our own opions. i retired over two years ago, if it we'nt for the union, i could'nt have done it. It provided good wages, benefits, and job protection. Yes i had to pay dues, but they (theunion) got us good bennifits and so here i am, making room for some other person to make a good living for his family. I put 33 yrs with the same co. i know of others that put in 45 yrs, he also drove a record of 4 millon accident free miles while employed (he just did'nt want to retire)

But ask your selfs, were did my benefits come from? my vacations, my pay increases, the hours that i work, the saftey that i enjoy at work, the medical plan provided to me? the union movement created this for every one that is employed today, whether union or not. And yes some jobs are better than others and a lot of employers don't like the word --union! "just be happy"

just my pennys worth.

 

[HillCountrykid]

MLee, I know that unions are set up different, but I won't be in mine much longer.

!. Vacations-not payed. They take money out of my paycheck every week and put it in a "vacation fund". When I take my vacation, I get it back, but guess who collects the intrest on it during the meantime? At any given time there is roughly $3/4 million in the "vacation fund". If I'm not at work I don't get payed.

2. Pay increases- about the same as everyone elses "cost of living" increase.

3. Hours I work-40 to 60 hours a week, depending on job.

4. Safety I enjoy at work-been to the minor emergency room once. I don't believe the union has anything to do with safety. OSHA and lawsuits do.

5. Medical plan-$2. 65 an hour out of my paycheck. Crappy coverage too. Getting worse every year.



Maybe your union treated you well. Mine is not so great. The way it sounds, your union is a lot different.



Brian

 

[MLee]

the labor thing

brian, sorry to hear that yours is such a tintalating problem. i belonged to a international union with regions across the nation and i guess that this helps. plus its, i think the largest union in the nation. Well anyway, hang in there, some organizations are that way, i'm sorry to hear that they, do'nt care about there members, and go to work and get you guys and decent contract, so you can get the benifits that you deserve. there onyour pay roll, they should work for you to.

marv.

 

[HillCountrykid]

Marv, other locals have better benefits, health coverage, and so on than ours. I'm still gonna leave the union in a couple of years, but some of that is because I want a more stable job than construction. Right now there is something like 300 out of 1500 members out of work.



I'm glad you did'nt get upset. I hoped my earlier post did'nt offend you. I just got all worked up about my union, not you. Hope you enjoy your retirement. I've only got 40 years or so left.



Brian

 

[merryman]

Dumb me, all the time I thought it was the employer who provided the job, the pay and the benefits.

Next some one is going to tell me it was the gov't. that provides all those things.

Man, ya learn something every day. Some one ought to tell Bill Gates that it wasn't him and Micro-soft that provided all those thousands of jobs. It was the unions and the government.



Vaughn

 

[speedracer]

I'm about as non-union as you can get...

'cause I'm self employed. I'm OTR owner operator. No benefits, but I have control over where and when I work. I'm relatively happy with the situation(otherwise, I'd be doing something else).



The only problem I have with unions is when they get into a bad us-versus-them mindset with management to such an extent that common sense goes out the window. I've spent enough time on the docks at auto plants to give me a bad attitude towards unions.

 

[Steve M]

This topic is even worse than a religious debate.

Vaughn,

You're taking some statements out of context to make a point. Bill Gates provides thousands of jobs both directly and indirectly. He doesn't provide pay and benefits. He, like myself and everyone else would love to have volunteers work for us. We would want to best work for the least pay. Just like we want the most truck for the least money paid. So we negotiate a price and when we agree, we buy. If you're non union, you negotiate a price for your labor on an individual bases. If you are a union member like myself, you pay an agent to represent you and your fellow workers to negotiate collectively. History has proven that collectively, a work force can negotiate better pay and benefits than one can negotiate alone. This does not mean collective bullying. That's when unions give themselves a bad name. Ya don't bite the hand that feeds you. But if the hand that feeds you is abusive or feeds you so little that you can't provide for yourself and your family, you either look for work elsewhere or you and your co-workers bargain collectively for alittle more feed and better working conditions. If that doesn't work then you stand back and watch your job go to Mexico where people will work for near nothing, take abuse and live in a thatch hut while they dream of living in America where unions have fought for better working conditions and better pay for working class Americans both union and non-union.

 

[MLee]

sorry i opened a can of worms.

Brian; you did'nt ruffle my feathers, i'm with you, if it does't work move on. 40yrs, i've been there, plan for the future.

Vaughn; your right the employer does provide the job he also wants the impossable to happen from you and give you no credit when it does happen, and what do you get in return? he should be fair in all cases and treat you right to keep you there with the fringe benifits, etc, am i right? thats the point that i'm tring to make.

sreedracer; thats why you are where you are, so you can be in control, sorry about the bad taste thats been put up on you, but unless you plan ahead, what have you got ? Big payments and wondering when the next load is coming.

Steve; hay--hay thanks i agree with you, alot of the jobs are going south. along with the trucking ind.



I appolagize if i've offended you guys, but thats the way i feel, and the way i see it. thank you

 

[joesoot]

As we speak i am trying to get into an IBEW apprenticeship... I have had enough non-union; conditions, safety and wages are below par where I happen to be currently employed. I took my entrance exam , aced it and I think I did pretty well in the interview, now it's just a waiting game as i'm not willing to "salt" for them(the idea scares me). Union bargained wages have put the food on my family's table for at least 3 generations, must be because we're so lazy. So please, don't buy american and please don't buy union. <worm-sarcasm>

 

[Champane Flight]

I have.

I have worked for people who the thought of going Union never entered my head. Good employers are hard to find out there. I have had one job in thirty five years that the employer actually cared about his workers. Don't get me wrong,there were jobs that I liked,however always something missing. Not enough pay,no health,or maybe love the work and hate the boss... ...



This is what happened at our work. They had a complete turnover about 1985,the old workers decided to take an early out. They were strong Union,no break from contract was tolerated. Us youngins took over and enjoyed a fairly non-eventful couple of years. Then it started,the company started to break from contract in little ways,having non-Union people doing Union work,ect,ect. All of us were busy,so no-one wanted to make waves. Then it got worse and worse. Then came the decertification vote,a few in another terminal wanted to vote out the union. Then when it failed,the layoffs came,every position effected was a person that had voted pro-Union!Then the war started!Two strong Union men in another terminal started fileing greveinces for every thing ,over 50in a year and a half.



The company then labeled both of these men trouble makers and every Supervisor out there started to tell its work force what worthless workers they were. These men worked for the company for 15-19 years and did everything asked of them!When new workers were hired they were screened and hired for thier anti-union sentiment. The rest of the employees were told they were great employees and that they don't need a Union. Then to top it all off the Union in all its glory changes hands in mid-battle and drops greiveinces that were filed for REAL voilations and breach of contract.



The final straw is that our Union not having a closed shop (because of Texas "right to work for less law")only had two paying members in our work group. They dropped us when the "other" terminal started another decert vote. So now we work with NO contract and employees are trying to start own Union. I have a feeling that company will NOT recognize us and will treat us so nice,huh?Happy has nothing to do with it.



I have four years left in this job. I have a good boss(still a boss). And I am not about to go to war now,already fought my battles. I am reasonably happy(can go to work and smile). It is a frame of mind and has nothing to do with my job. Happy to have a roof over my head and a job. But,can see the end of the line for the Unions,too many out for #1 only. And of course there are the people who actually listen to the dribble coming from big buisness and believe it!

 

[Shovelhead]

Proud Union member of Local 2336 Communications Workers of America since '81.

Been through 4 strikes, longest 4 1/2 weeks, shortest 1 1/2 days.

The union is the only reason I still have the benifits I started with in '81.

Each contract the Company comes out with the "money's tight, gotta cut back benifits" sob story,( this is a multi-BILLION$$ corp. ), however the guys with ties always manage to receive their bonuses.

 

[NVR FNSH]

Not trying to offend anybody but I have a question.



Those of you that are Union members - white or blue collar jobs? I'm a mechanical engineer, yes I sit in a cube way tooo much, and I've never been a union member. My salary has increased more than the COL each year and my benefits have stayed about the same. Medical/dental has gone up slightly but not a significant amount. For my job I just don't see where a union would be of any value to me. For the most part, engineers have done pretty well negotiating on there own.



SteveM - I've been to two maquiladoras (sp?) - 1 in Cuidad Jaurez (Big 3 supplier) & 1 in Mexicali (Boeing supplier). Both operations were spotless and from what I could tell safety was a major concern. I can't speak for the living in a thatch hut but I was thoroughly impressed by the factories.



Brian

 

[HiPerf360]

I hate unions for a few reasons...



Any time you get reported for answering the phone before 8:00.



You are reprimanded for going above and beyond?



I don't want to wait for someone to die to get a promotion.

 

[LarryB]

I'm sorry but I really don't have any feelings on this at all.



My dad is a union buster in the paper industry, has been for 30 yrs. Consults now. I may be just a little one sided on this and probably won't change my mind from this discussion. I decided a long time ago that if I didn't like working for someone then I could leave. Never held a job for more than a year. Went into biz for myself in 75, now I have 3.



Imagine this!



My customer is my boss. If I don't deliver the best product for the best price the SOB will goto the competition. Dang! Says he has to show a profit. What kind of bull is that. It's not fair, he owes me that business, I deserve it, I've been doing business with him for 10yrs and I don't give a hoot if I am charging him twice what the competition is, I'm worth it. How can I feed my family without those fat margins. I tell ya, he is a greedy SOB.



I tried to negotiate with him by getting all his other suppliers to stick with me and demand our rights to higher prices. He came up with the lame excuse that he can't feed his family on what he's making because the stupid customers are too cheap to pay him twice what his competition charges. He know's the customers are rich and don't deserve what they have because he sees them spending money like it's water. He can't figure it out. Neither can I. I think I'll start harrasing his customers and destroy his business so he will come around and start paying my price. He'll really start to appreciate me, you watch! I am certainly not going to work with him to find a solution so we can both make money, he'd just try to screw me again anyway. It's just not fair.



Sound familiar????

 

[moparguy]

Doc, you can really get a pot to boil.



Stir, stir stir.

 

[Steve M]

So Larry, why don't you quit crying so much and negotiate a fair price. That or find something else to do. Sounds like your dad has done alot of brainwashing with you. We simply negotiate a price for our labor and when the company and our union agree on a contract, it's signed. Have you never negotiated a contract and signed one? It means both parties agree. It's called business.

I've been a union member for almost 21 yrs. I've never seen any of the BS I'm reading here. I'm seeing the same envy about my level of pay that the well to do claim we have for their level of income. Isn't that alittle hypocritical? Do they not negotiate with their suppliers and venders and then with purchasers of their products? There again, it's called business.

Brian, I'm happy to read that the factories in Mexico are clean and safe. I'd like to tour the Harley Davidson facilities where I understand their union and company are like family. And the facilities are spotless. I guess those union wages haven't run them out of business or even caused a riff between union and management. I supose where greed and envy don't overwhelm labor or management, a union can work great for both sides of the table.

HiPerf360

I leave my cell phone on during the weekends just incase I'm needed. I turn it on during the week at 6:00am to receive any calls for regular time at 8:00. I leave it on 'til about 10:00 at night just in case. We're incouraged to go above and beyond. I don't know what rock pile you work on but our office and union hall post all promotion opportunities on the bulletin boards. If a member goes into management, he has a generous grace period to test the waters before he decides to stay management or union. Then we still get along. Imagine that!

Unions aren't for everyone. But for those who can benefit from a collective work force, the union is it's members no different than this forum is it's members. It can either be productive or distructive. It's up to all of us.

To those who literally hate the word union, please don't participate in any group purchases that someone has negotiated with a supplier or member. You can do better on your own.

 

[Mark_Kendrick]

HiPerf360,

you wouldn't happen to work for American would you? I used to work for S. A. B. R. E. out at the complex there. . lots of horror stories.



I'm a consultant (I. T. nerd) that works for lots of places and I have yet to see the 'good' that they do. I was on a project for Raytheon in Andover, Ma. You should hear what the union employees did to their salaried employees during a strike. The cops just sat by and watched the death threats, vandalism and abuse. The Police are union too. . one hand washes the other



Where I come from, if I write the checks I determine benefits and pay. If I want good employees I pay well and have good benefits, else...



The union workers were mostly worthless and the ones w/ work ethic were abused by their senior union members. He!!, the union positions are set by seniority and not qualifications or performance... B. S.

 

[roadranger]

Unions??

I was a (non-union) truck driver for 24 years. Went back to school and needed a part time job to make ends meet. A local bulk cement hauler was looking for a part time driver (Fri and Sat, some Sun) to fill in because the full timers were reaching hours of service and couldn't drive any longer. Win-win situation, I had a job, the company serviced it's customers.



A month into the job, the union steward buttonholes me out in the yard and informs me I have to join the union, pay the initiation fees, and get the full dues deducted from my pay. WHY?

I was part time, didn't rate any benefits, and would NEVER see any of that money I was supposed to pay them EVER again. And the union didn't get me the job, and the pay scale was no greater than other non union jobs around the city.



Management liked me because I did the job in a safe and timely manner, knew how to drive their twin sticks, and didn't beat up or wreck their trucks. When I went to management to tell them I wasn't going to pay off the union and would have to quit, management came up with a plan. I would work close to 90 days, then hand in a written resignation on Saturday. I would get a call along about Wednesday saying I was hired and to report in on Friday. This would last close to 90 days and start all over again for the remainder of the 2 years I was in school.